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TOPIC: Rockers on a low pa

RE:Rockers on a low pa 10 Sep 2011 02:26 #31

  • cuttinshoer
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Austin the one thing that I don't like is the amount of toe hanging over the shoe. Pretty close to blood there. It would be interesting to see what the area above the extensor process looks like in a few weeks.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 10 Sep 2011 02:27 #32

  • Rick Talbert
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Not how I saw the thread going, but if you say that adding leverage to the toe of a limping horse can prevent it from limping, I would think that statement widens the scope of the conversation a bit. The thread is going a bit downhill so I guess we shouldn't chase that rabbit much further.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 10 Sep 2011 02:53 #33

  • Eric Russell
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Charlie Piccione wrote:
1. Ron's post has the horse balanced on center, hoof is equaly weighted via shoe and gravity. IMO

Center of what?
2. Normal break over is the transfer of weight from heel to rolling off the toe. The back of this hoof is not weight bearing neither from the shoe nor gravity. IMO How can it be weight bearing?

Breakover is dynamic. Weight bearing is static. What are you talking about?
3. I can't see how the heel could come into play unless the CB went way negative and that would really blow the original intent of the OP.
It looks to me as though the shoe has caused the horse to stand fully weighted on the toe and just behind or just under the tip of the coffin bone. There is nothing Normal about that.

I don't know what you mean by the heel coming into play so I can't comment. Just because the toe is touching the ground doesn't mean the rest of the foot isn't loaded does it?
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 10 Sep 2011 03:31 #34

Eric Russell wrote:

Center of what?



Breakover is dynamic. Weight bearing is static. What are you talking about?



I don't know what you mean by the heel coming into play so I can't comment. Just because the toe is touching the ground doesn't mean the rest of the foot isn't loaded does it?

Have you looked at the pictures that were uploaded? If so maybe you can shed some light on how these two differant jobs are alike in function or differant from each other. How ever you see it. I would really like to know what you think about them. How they can be useful to the horse and for what reasons.
And no, IMO the OP shoeing is not weighting the heels, at all. I can stick my toe under that and feel comfortable about doing so. Looks like statically he can not put weight on the heel, just MO.
Charlie Piccione Sr.
Washington, NJ.
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 10 Sep 2011 03:41 #35

  • Eric Russell
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Charlie Piccione wrote:

Have you looked at the pictures that were uploaded? If so maybe you can shed some light on how these two differant jobs are alike in function or differant from each other. How ever you see it. I would really like to know what you think about them. How they can be useful to the horse and for what reasons.

I commented on your post. If I had a comment on the first post I'd comment.
And no, IMO the OP shoeing is not weighting the heels, at all. I can stick my toe under that and feel comfortable about doing so. Looks like statically he can not put weight on the heel, just MO.

You can stick your toe under it therefore it's not weight bearing? Do you have any idea where the bone is inside that hoof capsule? Do you really shoe horses? Who have you worked for?
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 10 Sep 2011 06:12 #36

texfarrier wrote:
so do you think the horse i shod needs a bigger shoe?....also your saying to use a wedge to protect if the hoof decides to rock back?..thanks ron


On a level/flat/regular type of shoe, you'd need to bring back break over by placing the toe way back. Save for a really thick shoe and a whole lot of feathering :rolleyes: the foot will stick over the shoe. That is not really necessary. I'm not against having feet stick out in front, as long as the 50/50 division between support and breakover is met, but a banana does allow you to protect the toe more and still have a breakover where you need it.

A banana allows rocking forward, but rocking backward as well. Where this may be a good thing I always worried about overdoing it. You know a foot that hits the ground in any perculiar way and kind of "snapping" backward. For that reason I use a wedge and preferably a bar shoe on my banana's



Ronald Aalders
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 10 Sep 2011 06:16 #37

Eric Russell wrote:
In the second pic, with the arrows going up and down at the feltock, what do they mean? Rooney has an article on this website explaining there is a moment at all joints redirecting force.

Forget about those arrows, that was just a quick explanation to a customer about the some of the forces at play in a laminitic case.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 10 Sep 2011 17:19 #38

  • texfarrier
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i got to thinking and the one thing i will change on the next set is a bigger shoe to cover more toe...thanks everyone for your input
Austin Russell
"Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit"
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 15 Sep 2011 03:20 #39

  • Mp__4659
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Am i the only one who thinks of this shoeing as totally unacceptable?

Mp__4659
Mike Phillips
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 15 Sep 2011 10:59 #40

Mp__4659 wrote:
Am i the only one who thinks of this shoeing as totally unacceptable?

Mp__4659
Mike Phillips

A lot of people find it hard to understand if that's what you mean. If you think it should be banned you need to consider the horses that I for one helped out using this protocol, where other ways of shoeing failed. Not saying there wouldn't have been any other type of shoeing that might have helped those horses, but the banana shoes sure came through, repeatedly.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 15 Sep 2011 12:14 #41

  • Mp__4659
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Nope...nothing to do with the bananna shoe itself, while I personally don't subscribe to that school of thought I keep an open mind :). In this case I'm referring to the actual shoeing...shoe size, fit, finish, etc.

Mp__4659
mike Phillips
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 15 Sep 2011 20:49 #42

  • texfarrier
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Mp__4659 wrote:
Nope...nothing to do with the bananna shoe itself, while I personally don't subscribe to that school of thought I keep an open mind :). In this case I'm referring to the actual shoeing...shoe size, fit, finish, etc.

Mp__4659
mike Phillips

shoe could be one size bigger but will not hurt anything.what do you think is wrong with the fit or finish ?
Austin Russell
"Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit"
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 16 Sep 2011 00:10 #43

  • Eric Russell
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texfarrier wrote:
shoe could be one size bigger but will not hurt anything.what do you think is wrong with the fit or finish ?

Maybe I missed it, what was your goal on this job?

You showed an old shoeing job which was overgrowing at the heels and severely out in front. I would've expected to see some shots after you trimmed and dressed the foot to see why you thought this horse needed this shoe. With this type of shoe, the before shots really don't show anything.
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RE:Rockers on a low pa 16 Sep 2011 00:53 #44

  • texfarrier
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Eric Russell wrote:
Maybe I missed it, what was your goal on this job?

You showed an old shoeing job which was overgrowing at the heels and severely out in front. I would've expected to see some shots after you trimmed and dressed the foot to see why you thought this horse needed this shoe. With this type of shoe, the before shots really don't show anything.

well the before shots do show how far out in front the hooves are and a low pa especially for a horse that has navicular issues and the pa would have changed very little from just trimming...so to answer your question why i put a rocker on him is so i could increase his pa and decrease breakover effort witch will in effect help with ddft tension..and ill start taking pics after i trim too..how would you have shod him?
Austin Russell
"Uva Uvam Vivendo Varia Fit"
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