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TOPIC: Frog fell out??

Frog fell out?? 10 May 2011 02:05 #1

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Ok this is the horse shown in this thread.....

http://horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?p=233959#post233959

This picture is the one in question here. Where is his frog? And what kind of injuries/disease processes cause this to happen?? I would have guessed Canker but he is not sore and this would have been something that happened recently.



Shot of the angle

Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Frog fell out?? 10 May 2011 02:53 #2

It most likely shed. It happens two to four time a year or so.
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RE:Frog fell out?? 10 May 2011 03:32 #3

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Wow, kinda freaked me out when I saw it.
Kim Turner

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RE:Frog fell out?? 10 May 2011 05:36 #4

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Normal hoof normal Frog for the ground conditions ,and climate.
One of the first questions to be asked when looking at hooves is where and on what does the horse live and walk each and everyday .
Hooves with change shape and size .... They will also change size shape to fit a shoe they stand on ,this is why it's so important to fit the shoe to the hoof and not the other way round.
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RE:Frog fell out?? 10 May 2011 11:53 #5

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Ray_Knightley wrote:
Normal hoof normal Frog for the ground conditions ,and climate.
One of the first questions to be asked when looking at hooves is where and on what does the horse live and walk each and everyday .
Hooves with change shape and size .... They will also change size shape to fit a shoe they stand on ,this is why it's so important to fit the shoe to the hoof and not the other way round.

Hmm, not doubting you but this is the only hoof that looks that way on this horse and including the rest of the herd. So that's why it shocked me, and that I've not seen that yet in a horse.
Kim Turner

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RE:Frog fell out?? 10 May 2011 12:48 #6

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Doogie maybe a thrush that has then gone onto a dry environment for some time after the fact ???
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RE:Frog fell out?? 11 May 2011 01:20 #7

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Ray_Knightley wrote:
Doogie maybe a thrush that has then gone onto a dry environment for some time after the fact ???

LOL, yeah was waiting on one of you to comment on that signature.

I checked him today and the frog is coming back. It's starting to fill back out somewhat. Still in awe about it. My farrier also said that prehaps he'd shed it. Also I showed him a video of him walking and he's much better than when he last saw him. Still getting the Rads done for my own peace of mind.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Frog fell out?? 11 May 2011 12:52 #8

Hi Kim,

Have been enjoying your posts. One suggestion, investigate Occam's razor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor

You will find it valuable as you make your way forward.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:Frog fell out?? 11 May 2011 18:23 #9

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Interesting as I always thought of Occam's Razor as being this:

"It is often statistically more likely that a patient has several common diseases, rather than having a single rarer disease which explains their myriad symptoms."

Now that is the principle of Hickam's dictum ("Patients can have as many diseases as they d@mn well please"), and I suppose that above sentence still correlates because it is saying that the answer is simple while appearing complicated.

Did I glean what I was supposed to there? lol
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Frog fell out?? 11 May 2011 21:55 #10

MPLdyCop wrote:
Interesting as I always thought of Occam's Razor as being this:

"It is often statistically more likely that a patient has several common diseases, rather than having a single rarer disease which explains their myriad symptoms."

Now that is the principle of Hickam's dictum ("Patients can have as many diseases as they d@mn well please"), and I suppose that above sentence still correlates because it is saying that the answer is simple while appearing complicated.

Did I glean what I was supposed to there? lol

Doogie,


I think you totally missed it, except for the simple part.

The "Keratoma" is probably just from a scar on the CB. The frog didn't fall out, it shed, which is normal, and it looks pretty normal. The laminitic horse MAY just need a good trim - doesn't look like a laminitic hoof to me (not sure about the intermittent lameness, though ). Did you have a post about canker? It looked like thrush to me, but maybe that wasn't your post.

Of course, I could be wrong ;).

Hang in there!!

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:Frog fell out?? 12 May 2011 00:26 #11

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Western Hill Forge wrote:
Doogie,


I think you totally missed it, except for the simple part.


Hang in there!!

Regards

The "simple part" was what I was asking if I got right. In other words the simplest answer is often the correct one.

I mentioned the first sentence because as a huge "HOUSE" fan I had heard that termed before on the show.

My farrier did say that he thought it was a previous injury, so does that mean I'll never get it to grow out? Here is a solar shot of that. I could not get a better view without exploring it more and right now I didn't want to aggravate the injured hoof. Possible WLD there in that?? Bigger wallowed out area than I'd thought there'd be.



On the frog falling out........ well technically it did. Just was shed first. lol

I didn't have a Canker one.

I do agree that the "laminitic" horse doesn't show the typical signs now for sure. My farrier said he is even walking better when he saw the video. Now I really want to find out what happened to him.

I think the Doogie Joke has run it's course, so now I must find another witty tag line. lol
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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RE:Frog fell out?? 12 May 2011 12:41 #12

MPLdyCop wrote:

My farrier did say that he thought it was a previous injury, so does that mean I'll never get it to grow out? Here is a solar shot of that. I could not get a better view without exploring it more and right now I didn't want to aggravate the injured hoof. Possible WLD there in that?? Bigger wallowed out area than I'd thought there'd be.




Kim,

IF there is a permanent injury to the CB there will always be a "scar" in the hoof wall, and it probably will be a weakness in the hoof wall. The crack will grow out, with proper care. A shoe would help. There could be some disease in there. It's hard to know what came first, the crack or the disease. Because of the scar, I would guess the crack. If the hole only goes up a half inch or so from the bottom, you could take a minimalist approach and clean it as best you can, soak it in White Lightning, then pack it with copper sulfate and Keratex hoof putty. If it goes farther, you will probably need to resect some hoof and put a shoe on for support. Quarter/side clips will help. If you try to fix it by just trimming, you will just end up chasing it all the way to the CB.

Keratomas are quite rare. That curving in of the white line, which you would see with a keratoma, can also be caused by many other things - impaction, disease, imbalance/distortion, etc. Keratomas eventually can cause lameness, and must be removed by a vet.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:Frog fell out?? 12 May 2011 14:17 #13

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Thanks Rick,

I didn't have a full understanding of what a Keratoma was, so I see now that this is some kind of injury I missed.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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