make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Sunday May 29, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Clubfoot problem

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 01:21 #76

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
the_unicorn wrote:
In the worst cases there is temporary improvement to the hoof capsule, IE the hoof can look normal but can return to being clubby if left untrimmed for many months I suspect damage to the lamina plays a part in this. While the hoof capsule is close to normal the horse moves more freely.

What grade club are you referring to? It just seems normal to me that an upright foot untrimmed for months would become more upright. I don't think this is breaking news.
My sister who has also trimmed a number of club feet back to normal feet started a long argument at the government college run Barefoot trimming school by suggesting that club feet are created and not genetic. One teacher is a farrier the other an endurance rider. One feels they can't be fixed the other says why not :-).

Aren't you saying you can fix them? Where's the proof?
The dorsal dish is nearly always removed from clubby feet unless the lamina are too badly damaged, though according to professor Bowker given time the lamina will be rebuilt from the hoof wall back to the coronet band.

When you say clubby, do you mean an upright foot like a grade 1 club or ???
The dorsal dish is how we found that trigger to club feet. The neck muscles showed the horse was tensing the shoulder in preparation to transfer weight into the toe after landing.

The last time I checked, all horses transfer weight into the toe after landing. Well, I guess if they're going backwards they don't.
The horse would put the foot down without reaching full extension

Interesting, are you able to post the gait analysis on here so we can see the leg not fully extending?
and as the quarters region took part of the load of the pedal bone there was tension in the periosteum at the palmar wings so the horse used muscles to change the load in the foot putting more weight into the toe.

Interesting theory! Now, can you explain why dipping the quarters will take away the pain but nerving and blocking will not?
Bergy Bergman described this treatment 16 years ago but not many people have listened to him.

He's the only clinician I've walked out on and considered cutting his hands off at the wrists so I would hope not many people listen to him.
If you do a short shoeing cycle, relieving the quarters each time while the coronet curves upward at the quarters you will quickly notice that continuous dorsal dishing will stop.

You will get less distortion if you shorten the shoeing cycle. Again, this isn't breaking news.
The new hoof growth will be uniform and straight,

Pics?
unfortunately the old growth at the toe is compromised until this new ring reaches the bottom so the old problems of nails coming loose and wall breaking off before the hoof is normal will slow things down.

What kind of farriers are you hanging around? Loose nails and wall breaking off? Maybe you farriers turned trimmers weren't much of a farrier in the first place?
The horse will also become much more relaxed in the muscles under trapezius cerviacus and be able to extend that leg further and strike off better on the clubby side.

Of course just because you gut the quarters. LOL
I am not sure what you are asking about putting something under the toe, until the hoof is starting to rehab the horse will try everything to transfer weight out of the heels.

There ya go, show a pic of a horse who can't touch there heel when you wedge the toe. Then show the same foot after you fix it.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 01:38 #77

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
the_unicorn wrote:
As usual Rick your multi line quotes make it impossible to reply.
Not if you possess any literary and linguistic ability they don't.
I do agree surgeries are a management protocol but so is shoeing and trimming, the question is which leaves the horse the healthiest.
How high is up?
Surgery to correct a biomechanics problem seems misguided.
To whom? You? Or perhaps the horse it helps?
Shoeing if done right can help the horse at the cost of lost bone density if shod long term.
Nonsense. An unsupported claim posing as a fact.
Multi generational club feet being genetic?, I would need to see rads, at foaling and through early life too see if it is the horses genes or the farriers.
Nonsense
Come on Rick you cannot claim club feet is often genetic without rads and correct management, you can only assume that management has not worked.
Wrong kemosabi. Are you familiar with the inductive reasoning test known as "the duck test"? ie: If it walks like a duck and it quacks like a duck and it swims like a duck, then odds are, its a duck and not a dragon.....
With Dr. Bistrip's work the cause may genes of big foals from small pelvis mares causing foaling trauma.
Really? Then how do you explain the fact that in most cases, the contra-lateral hind limb is also the one that is, to some degree, clubby? And, in the instance of the long toe-low heel front, the contra-lateral hind will also exhibit, to some degree, that conformation?
If you have seen any studies of wild horses show a completely different palmar wing compared to domestic horses this is due to hoof capsule trimming happening on a daily basis.
Unless there is evidence or studies to support this claim, you have just committed a logical fallacy....
Prof Chris Pollit measures hoof capsule growth of desert brumbies at 1.5mm a day, that means a new hoof capsule every 2 months.
Your brumbies are exhibiting hoof growth heretofore unknown to man.
The wall never gets a chance to pull on the periosteum like a domestic horses does.
You say that as if it were an absolute when in fact, the only truth is, "it Depends"
Sure a fall down the cliffs they run could fracture a pedal bone but not going for a gallop like young thoroughbreds do.
You can, of course, substantiate that allegation can't you?
If a horse is born with a club foot does that mean it is not able to improve?
It depends
I can almost guarantee they have got worse, my point is if they can get worse they are changing due to environment so they can get better given optimum environment.
It depends. "almost guarantee" how much is that when expressed as a percentage of the whole?
Post pics of a club foot we can try for an improvement.
This is your play, not mine. You've made some rather serious and outlandish claims. Its up to you to defend/substantiate them. ;)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 01:55 #78

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
Darren -

Here's some pics of a club I shoe. Club

Looking at the pics it looks like it's already dipped in the quarters at the hairline.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 01:58 #79

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
And here's another one - Club
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 02:18 #80

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Eric Russell wrote:
Looking at the pics it looks like it's already dipped in the quarters at the hairline.
To me, it looks more like the coronary band is jammed at the toe pillar/quarter.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 02:19 #81

  • Clint Burrell
  • Clint Burrell's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 998
  • Thank you received: 7
  • Karma: 2
Eric,
You just didn't gut the quarters far enough forward on the fist one shown.LOL
Shoe to the wave,Dude.
Clint Burrell

"You say your from collage,
but you don't seem to bright.
You just brought a swichblade
to a pistol fight"
Move On by Chris Knight
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 02:24 #82

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
Rick Burten wrote:
To me, it looks more like the coronary band is jammed at the toe pillar/quarter.

Could be but does that mean it's unweighting the quarters and soon the horse will not have a club foot?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 02:25 #83

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
Clint Burrell wrote:
Eric,
You just didn't gut the quarters far enough forward on the fist one shown.LOL
Shoe to the wave,Dude.

I'm going for it next time! :D
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 02:29 #84

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
What is an MHG?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 02:34 #85

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
hotrodiesel wrote:
What is an MHG?

Mentor hoof groom. you need to keep up dan!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 02:36 #86

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
Gotcha!!! I don't know how I didn't know that.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 02:51 #87

  • beslagsmed
  • beslagsmed's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1798
  • Thank you received: 5
  • Karma: 0
Darren,
Since you got such good info, I am guessing you have case studies with before and after photos, x-rays and supporting facts. I would like to read this study.

I have a customer who has a mare who is clubby in the right front. Every foal I have seen from this mare is clubby in the right front. Can you explain why(if not genetic)?
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 03:35 #88

  • Mark_Gough
  • Mark_Gough's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2184
  • Thank you received: 35
  • Karma: 7
the_unicorn wrote:
Shoeing if done right can help the horse at the cost of lost bone density if shod long term.

You assert that correct, long term shoeing will result in a loss of bone density.

Please elaborate on your definition of "long term" and describe the mechanism which you believe relates correct shoeing to bone density loss.

Cheers,
Mark
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 11:26 #89

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Eric Russell wrote:
Could be but does that mean it's unweighting the quarters and soon the horse will not have a club foot?
As my mother used to say, "From your mouth to God's ears....":)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 18 Jun 2010 11:42 #90

  • cuttinshoer
  • cuttinshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1629
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
beslagsmed wrote:
I have a customer who has a mare who is clubby in the right front. Every foal I have seen from this mare is clubby in the right front. Can you explain why(if not genetic)?

Because her pelvis is tighter on the left side so she is breaking the foals ribs on the right side causing a club foot. LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!:D:D:p
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • Chris Daniel birthday is today
  • FordWayFarm birthday is today
  • Hillbilly898 birthday is today
  • Alykee07 birthday is in 1 day
  • Anvil375 birthday is in 1 day
  • Martin Kenny birthday is in 1 day
  • mattsherberg43 birthday is in 1 day
  • missjestr birthday is in 1 day
  • Mitch White birthday is in 1 day
  • ravensgate birthday is in 1 day
  • Tim Neal birthday is in 1 day
  • Tcasey1968 birthday is in 363 days
  • JWHORSESHOEING birthday is in 364 days
  • TheCircleT birthday is in 364 days
  • THOROBREDS birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.219 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.