make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Friday May 27, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Clubfoot problem

Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 00:35 #1

  • canadian
  • canadian's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Contributing Member
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 0
Shod this horse about 3 weeks ago, has a clubfoot that grows a lot of heel. It was on a 53 degree angle and the other foot was on a 50. Took the heel down until they were both 50. The non clubfoot was also a shoe size bigger, it grows a lot of toe but the width is about 1/4 wider.
The owners were not impressed that i put two different size shoes on, apparently the immense weight difference in the shoes would make him lame :S even tho they were clearly two different sizes
So i got a call today and went out to look at him, because they said he was so lame he could barely walk.
He seemed to walk fine when i got there, ( i must have the magic touch :P) but he did have a difference of about 4 degrees in both feet. 53 on the clubfoot and 49 on the other. I lowered the club down to a 51 and backed the toe on the other so it was a 50. And there is about a 3/8 inch difference in the heels to the ground.
We decided to let her be without shoes for the night and decide what to do and shoe her tomorrow.

So now my question is, do i lower the heel on the club to the same as the other foot or maybe even lower and put a 1 degree wedge pad on the other foot to try to keep ahead of the growth and just back the toe up quite a bit? So in the end of the shoeing the non club foot would be about 1 or 2 degrees higher than the clubfoot, but then after 2 or 3 weeks he would be on the same angles. And in 5 or 6 be ready for a reset.

Im basically just trying to find away to stay ahead of the growth so hes not lame every 3 weeks because the one toe only grows with no heel and the other foot only grows heel and no toe.
And because he grows no heel on the one foot its getting to be underrun because its never trimmed and the old bent tubules remain there.

The owners also want me to put the same size shoes on him.

So any help, input and criticism would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Dustin
Dustin Willett
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 04:27 #2

  • Jack Evers
  • Jack Evers's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3399
  • Thank you received: 45
  • Karma: 9
When I get a horse that gains angle between shoeings, I feel he's telling me he doesn't like the lower angle even though I do like it. I usually let him be the final judge and settle on an angle that he'll hold, even though it might be different from what I'd like.

If this means shoeing the two feet differently, I'll do it, then but then put more breakover relief in the lower one. I have usually been able to use the same size shoe on both feet (sometimes with trimmed heels on the shoe for the clubby side.), but not always. The clubby side will be somewhat smaller.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 12:46 #3

Try Jacks advice, or maybe set the shoe back on the long foot to equalize breakover ( and allow the use of the same size shoe ). You could rocker both shoes, although differently for each foot.

If you think they are trying subtly to get you to "fix" the club foot, you might want to walk away. It won't come out well. Got burned by this a few years ago. Out of frustration, and months of argueing about it I finally took the owners direction. Even though I explained to her what would probably happen, and what we'ld have to do to fix if when it did ( lame, then a wedge), someone else got to wedge a horse I had lamed. A valuable lesson learned.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 14:27 #4

  • Jack Evers
  • Jack Evers's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3399
  • Thank you received: 45
  • Karma: 9
Even though I explained to her what would probably happen, and what we'ld have to do to fix if when it did ( lame, then a wedge), someone else got to wedge a horse I had lamed. A valuable lesson learned.

Been there, done that.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 14:32 #5

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
canadian wrote:
Shod this horse about 3 weeks ago, has a clubfoot that grows a lot of heel. It was on a 53 degree angle and the other foot was on a 50.
If there was a dish at the dorsal wall of the club foot, and you didn't remove it prior to using a hoof gauge, then your gauge lied to you and the true hoof angle was more than likely much higher.
Took the heel down until they were both 50.
IMNTBCHO it is a mistake to try and match mismatched hooves that are of the "hi-low syndrome" variety.
The non clubfoot was also a shoe size bigger, it grows a lot of toe but the width is about 1/4 wider.
A fairly common occurence.
The owners were not impressed that i put two different size shoes on, apparently the immense weight difference in the shoes would make him lame :S even tho they were clearly two different sizes
This is an opportunity for you to provide some intensive owner education.;)
So i got a call today and went out to look at him, because they said he was so lame he could barely walk.
Often when you try to 'normalize' heel heights this is what happens.
He seemed to walk fine when i got there, ( i must have the magic touch :P) but he did have a difference of about 4 degrees in both feet. 53 on the clubfoot and 49 on the other.
This is a fairly normal happenstance, and 3-5 weeks post trim/shoeing is just about the right time frame for this to happen.
I lowered the club down to a 51 and backed the toe on the other so it was a 50.
I think that 51 is probably too low and a bit uncomfortable for the horse.
And there is about a 3/8 inch difference in the heels to the ground.
We decided to let her be without shoes for the night and decide what to do and shoe her tomorrow.
Fairly typical. Again, horses with 'hi-'low' syndrome feet will continue to have mis-matched feet regardless of your best efforts. And, don't overlook the hinds. Generally speaking, the contra-lateral hind will, to some degree, experience the same conformation abnormality.
So now my question is, do i lower the heel on the club to the same as the other foot or maybe even lower and put a 1 degree wedge pad on the other foot to try to keep ahead of the growth and just back the toe up quite a bit?
IMNTBCHO, no. Treat each hoof as an individual. I would however serioously rocker the toe of the shoe going on the low side, or use a set back half-round, etc., and set the breakover where I deemed it appropriate. On the high side, I again would set the toe of the shoe where I deemed appropriate and would remove any distorted toe hanging over the front of the shoe. One other thing I make it a practice to do, is to only trim from the toe pillars back to the heel on the high side, leaving every bit of sole intact in the front part of the hoof. Sometimes, I will add a 1/8- 1/4 leather rim pad to the shoe for the high side. Also, some of these horses need additional mechanical support to the frog(Equipak, Impression Material, etc.). Also, the more sever the club foot is, the more likely I am to treat it like a foundered foot. It is always a good idea to get some radiographs of both feet so you can establish a baseline from which to work.
Im basically just trying to find away to stay ahead of the growth so hes not lame every 3 weeks because the one toe only grows with no heel and the other foot only grows heel and no toe.
Welcome to the wonderful world of dealing with mis-matched hooves.:o:)
[/quAnd because he grows no heel on the one foot its getting to be underrun because its never trimmed and the old bent tubules remain there.
He's growing heel, just in the wrong direction. As counter intuitive as it may seem, you have to remove as much of that damaged heel as is safe and then use wedges to put the hoof back where it belongs. And, remember that you will need a shoe wioth longer heels to set the shoe where it should be for proper support. And, it sounds as though this horse will need additional mechanical support for his frog. One way of achieving this is to use a frog support bar wedge pad. Before so doing, use your hoof testers to make sure the horse can handle the increased support on his frog.
The owners also want me to put the same size shoes on him.
And people in H-ell want ice water.......... That said, it can be done, sometimes, depending.

And, last but not least, the horse will be far more likely to pull the shoe on the club foot than on the low foot and it can make you crazy trying to overcome this propensity.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 23:13 #6

  • solidrockshoer
  • solidrockshoer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Admin
  • Posts: 12874
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: -1
Hi Dustin,

You should do a little research on hi/lo syndrome and club feet. When you get a better understanding of what's going on in those situations you'll get a better idea on how to deal with them.

Not trimming the low heel and matching the high heel to the low is probably not the best way to go about things.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 23:27 #7

  • Show Shoe
  • Show Shoe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 242
  • Karma: 0
In my experience shoeing a horse with one club foot ignore the heel height completely and move up the limb to the point of the knees make sure they are even. A club footed horse has been this way generally since birth (unless of injury or fed to much protien as a young one) so there body has adjusted pretty well to the club foot. Also I start with the low foot and trim it to length I've noticed that whatever you take for toe on this foot you will find you will take this amount of heel off the club foot this should always put the points of the knees just about where they want to be. You may still need a small wedge on some low feet but this is a good place to start when shoeing a horse like this. I try meet in the middle I never adjust one foot to match the other work both feet. When you put shoes on to make the horse go evenly you have to try to get the same amount of shoe surface on each foot whether pulling the club foot shoe forward a little or setting the low foot shoe back alot of times I do both to get an even stride. Good luck let us know how it turns out.
Jeremy Lacroix
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 23:33 #8

Rick B,

I always struggle with feet like these. Thanks for posting all the good advice. Copied it to a word doc for future reference.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 23:43 #9

Show Shoe;203089 wrote:
When you put shoes on to make the horse go evenly you have to try to get the same amount of shoe surface on each foot whether pulling the club foot shoe forward a little or setting the low foot shoe back alot of times I do both to get an even stride. Good luck let us know how it turns out.[/quote

Jeremy,

I like it. But can you get away with setting the club footed shoe ahead of the toe with the owner, or did I misunderstand your suggestion? I often find I have to try to "disguise" any unusual shoeing or then owner ( or their friends ) freak, even though the horse is very happy with it.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 03 Jun 2010 23:51 #10

  • Show Shoe
  • Show Shoe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 242
  • Karma: 0
Western Hill Forge wrote:
Show Shoe wrote:
When you put shoes on to make the horse go evenly you have to try to get the same amount of shoe surface on each foot whether pulling the club foot shoe forward a little or setting the low foot shoe back alot of times I do both to get an even stride. Good luck let us know how it turns out.[/quote

Jeremy,

I like it. But can you get away with setting the club footed shoe ahead of the toe with the owner, or did I misunderstand your suggestion? I often find I have to try to "disguise" any unusual shoeing or then owner ( or their friends ) freak, even though the horse is very happy with it.

Regards

I've done it for years without a complaint sometimes the customer has to understand that you can't always shoe a horse in an ideal manner if there feet aren't ideal. If you explain it to them why your doing it I don't think you'll have a problem. I would say shoeing a horse with a club foot would fall under the catagory of coorective shoeing so I feel it's my job to correct it feet and gait the best I can. You can set a shoe forward and still make it look nice. Sometimes I even rasp the dish out of the foot and put a reverse wedge on to take up the space of setting the shoe forward this also works sweet once you get the hang of doing it correctly.
Jeremy Lacroix
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 04 Jun 2010 00:54 #11

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Show Shoe wrote:
Sometimes I even rasp the dish out of the foot and put a reverse wedge on to take up the space of setting the shoe forward this also works sweet once you get the hang of doing it correctly.
Aren't you concerned that putting a reverse wedge on that foot will strain the DFT, the SFT and the Suspensory ligament? Also, what is the advantage/purpose of leaving the 'duck bill' on that foot?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 04 Jun 2010 01:01 #12

  • dave murray
  • dave murray's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 882
  • Thank you received: 5
  • Karma: 0
Sometimes when i get a hi /lo horse i'll put a leather rim pad on the low foot and just the shoe on the high foot.
have done this a few times with good results.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 04 Jun 2010 01:34 #13

  • canadian
  • canadian's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Contributing Member
  • Posts: 65
  • Karma: 0
Just got back from shoeing the horse. Turned out really well. I put an 0 on the nonclub foot (it was a size 1) but i set it back farther on the foot, rasped the toe back and rockered the toe a bit, so that allowed me to go back down a size. I also put a 2 degree pad on it and it brought it up to a nice angle. Took a bit of the dish out of the clubfoot, and took the heel down a bit. But not too much to make it uncomfortable for him. So in the end both hooves were on the same angle and the heels were the same distance from the ground and the horse walked away sound and comfortable.
I appreciate all the advice, it really helped me out.
Thanks
Dustin Willett
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 04 Jun 2010 11:11 #14

  • Show Shoe
  • Show Shoe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Senior Member
  • Posts: 242
  • Karma: 0
Rick Burten wrote:
Aren't you concerned that putting a reverse wedge on that foot will strain the DFT, the SFT and the Suspensory ligament? Also, what is the advantage/purpose of leaving the 'duck bill' on that foot?

Like i said when done correctly it's obvious your experiece in shoeing horses is done mostly on a computer. I've done it for years with great success if you rasp the dish out a 2 degree wedge works alot of times to add toe length. I surprised you didn't do this "back in the day". Tell me back in the day did they still use horses for transportation. I'll tell you what Rick I'll do horses the way I see fit and you shoe them how you see fit from your computer the more you post the more it's apparent that you gett your information online from a book and not so much with hands on. Sometimes to shoe a horse you just have to use your imagination and put the picture in your head to the foot this happens when you become an skilled experienced farrier I hope it happens for you some day. Again I'm not going to get in a p#@$%ing contest with you I joined this website to get advise and give advise from working farriers if your just going to follow my posts around and try to take your little digs please don't respond to my posts. Try to act like a grownup. This will be my last response to you.;)

AS for the club foot please let us know how it comes along.
Jeremy Lacroix
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Clubfoot problem 04 Jun 2010 11:53 #15

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Show Shoe wrote:
it's obvious your experiece in shoeing horses is done mostly on a computer.
ROTFLMFAO! What is obvious is that you've got your undies all wadded up, over what, I won't even begin to speculate, but your immaturity is showing and you're beginning to look the fool. Perhaps its because you're shoeing 500 show horses????
I've done it for years with great success if you rasp the dish out a 2 degree wedge works alot of times to add toe length.
I'm ever so happy this has worked for you. Again, my original question remains. To whit, are you not concerned about the effect wedging the toe can have on the DFT, the SFT and the SL? If not, why not? Also, is that a 2 degree wedge or a #2 wedge you routinely use?
I surprised you didn't do this "back in the day".
That's your construction, not mine.......
Who Tell me back in the day did they still use horses for transportation.
And other things.
I'll tell you what Rick I'll do horses the way I see fit and you shoe them how you see fit from your computer
Whatever floats your boat.
the more you post the more it's apparent that you gett your information online from a book and not so much with hands on.
And the more you post, the more apparent it is that you are an insecure little wannabe that is more than likely more brag than buckle.
Sometimes to shoe a horse you just have to use your imagination and put the picture in your head to the foot this happens when you become an skilled experienced farrier
How would you know?
I hope it happens for you some day.
Rest easy my child, your wish has been fulfilled.
Again I'm not going to get in a p#@$%ing contest with you
In case you somehow missed it, you already have.....:rolleyes:
I joined this website to get advise and give advise from working farriers
As did I, so long ago. Since you are a newbie, you got some slack. Now, you are hoist by your own petard. You'll need to find a way to 'cowboy up' if you plan on sticking around and participating.
if your just going to follow my posts around and try to take your little digs please don't respond to my posts.
If you weren't so raw and chapped in your nether places, you'd realize that I haven't, until just now, taken any digs , little or large, at you. You're acting more like a teenage girl with a crush on her History teacher than a man with hair.
Try to act like a grownup.
Its a wise man who can follow his own advise.......
This will be my last response to you.;)
It'll be difficult, but I'll learn to live with that disappointment.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • Rude_n_Ugly birthday is today
  • Russ in WI birthday is today
  • Tcasey1968 birthday is today
  • JWHORSESHOEING birthday is in 1 day
  • TheCircleT birthday is in 1 day
  • THOROBREDS birthday is in 1 day
  • Chris Daniel birthday is in 2 days
  • FordWayFarm birthday is in 2 days
  • Hillbilly898 birthday is in 2 days
  • songlyrics32F075 birthday is in 364 days
  • SonnysMom birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.221 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.