make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Thursday January 27, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: COA - Banana shoe ???

COA - Banana shoe ??? 22 Nov 2009 05:18 #1

Ron Thank You
for illuminating the COA issue for me.

It is truly the topic that i have been wondering about
and because you were scheduled to talk about it,
waited for it rather that ask on the forums before this.

The measurements from without, I can see are instrumental in shoe placement,
according to this theory of shoeing.
And I don't mean theory in a bad way. (just couldn't think of a better word)

I know you only briefed us on the Banana shoe,
and there is likely a whole other talk that you could do . . .

. . . but I am thinking a couple of things.

When we force, our conclusion or strategy of a trim on a horse . . .
we are likely making it stand a certain way,
camped out or standing in a bucket, or any where in between.
The Banana shoe, especially on hard surfaces allows the horse/foot/leg
to stand where it wants to (hoof pastern alignment)
because of the rocker point of the COA built into the banana shoe.

Would that be a way of saying it ???
And if so would that the primary purpose of it ???

Just before you finished my Blue tooth ran out of juice
and I lost all sound and mic till Chris came on.
I don't know whether or not this was asked,
and I will have to wait for the DVD to hear all of the questions asked then.

Thanks again for a TOP NOTCH delivery.
Bradley SaintJohn

The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:COA - Banana shoe ??? 22 Nov 2009 14:51 #2

Yesterday I talked on feet angle, leg angles and back position. All are linked. A low heel will cause a rise in the fetlock (note the difference between the DIPJ angle and the PIPJ angle on a low heeled foot), and will subsequently move the entire leg forward and cause a camped out stance in front. Where a low heeled foot on a hind will cause a camped under stance. Only muscle power can keep a low heeled foot front under the body (or a low heeled hind from under the body).

On high heels the opposite occurs.

As I showed yesterday, a camped under stance rounds the back, where a camped out stance results in a hollowed back. A rounded back that a horse wished to normalize needs muscle power, likewise a hollow back can only be straightened by the horse by addressing it's abdominal muscles. A horse -especially a performance horse- does not need that extra work. Let alone horses with kissing spines to name just one pathology where this effect can have dramatic results.

So what we need to do is address heel height to work towards a foot that is well supported by increasing the support length to match the breakover length.

This goes for all shoeing! From squared toed Western Performance shoeing to TWH shoeing. I explained that there is a way to tell if a foot is well shod, whatever the task of a horse, a shoe should be centered around the COA. That is your reference for sound shoeing.

When we take this a step further we close in on the relation between the use of abdominal muscles vs dorsal muscles, just to allow a horse to keep its back straight. We have seen the relation between ease of breakover and heel lift, we have also seen that the more break over is eased the less wedges are needed to gain maximum raise in the heel area.

I am convinced that problems like calf knees, buck knees, camped out and camped under stance will be alleviated by straightening out the HPA and providing correct support to the foot. However the exact amount of correction the heel and or toe area trimming wise is often hard to tell. That is where for me the banana shoe comes in. The self adjusting palmar angle feature of the banana takes away guessing part. A correctly fitted banana shoe allows the horse to take care of angles it self.

But rather than discussing banana's here we need to understand that heel height affects leg stance and leg stance affects dorsi flexion/extension of the back. If we take that a couple of steps further we'll see that stride length in an individual horse is not influenced by weight or foot length as such, it is influenced by the dorsi flexion/extension of the back.

And when everybody (I really hope) start pondering on that one also think of the thoracic area being more rigid where rounding or hollowing the back is concerned. Also remember that a low heeled front results in a camped out stance and a low heeled hind results in a camped under stance. And visa versa. A horse that is camped under both fronts and hind, either uses it's abdominal muscles too much for what ever reason or has high heeled fronts and low heeled hinds.

To all that really have no clue what we're talking about here, ya'll shoulda participated in the Online Conference this year :D


Ronald Aalders
Attachments:
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:COA - Banana shoe ??? 22 Nov 2009 16:37 #3

  • tbloomer
  • tbloomer's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 4622
  • Thank you received: 20
  • Karma: 1
Ron,

In regards to the question on fitting heels and break-over in relation to the COA you may want to read this article.

http://www.horseshoes.com/advice/bumbaugh/duckettsdot.htm


What I have found to be very consistent is the "support length" from the origin of the heel buttress at the coronary band to the COA as an external reference to find the distance from the COA to breakover.

Thus when I place my shoe (A/P), I fit my heel length to a plumb line dropped from the point where the heel buttress exits the coronary band and set the break-over (ventral point where the roll in the toe intersects the ground) "breakover length" equal to that distance from the COA. It comes out with remarkable consistency in feet where I have lateral radiographs of my shoe placement. Leads me to believe that the proportional reference itself is very consistent.

Looking through your pictures, it appears to me that you are pretty much doing the same thing with your heel fit and breakover placement whether or not your judgment is based on the same reference points I am using . . .
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:COA - Banana shoe ??? 23 Nov 2009 14:03 #4

Ronald Aalders wrote:
Yesterday I talked on feet angle, leg angles and back position. All are linked. A low heel will cause a rise in the fetlock (note the difference between the DIPJ angle and the PIPJ angle on a low heeled foot), and will subsequently move the entire leg forward and cause a camped out stance in front. Where a low heeled foot on a hind will cause a camped under stance. Only muscle power can keep a low heeled foot front under the body (or a low heeled hind from under the body).

On high heels the opposite occurs.

As I showed yesterday, a camped under stance rounds the back, where a camped out stance results in a hollowed back. A rounded back that a horse wished to normalize needs muscle power, likewise a hollow back can only be straightened by the horse by addressing it's abdominal muscles. A horse -especially a performance horse- does not need that extra work. Let alone horses with kissing spines to name just one pathology where this effect can have dramatic results.

So what we need to do is address heel height to work towards a foot that is well supported by increasing the support length to match the breakover length.

This goes for all shoeing! From squared toed Western Performance shoeing to TWH shoeing. I explained that there is a way to tell if a foot is well shod, whatever the task of a horse, a shoe should be centered around the COA. That is your reference for sound shoeing.

When we take this a step further we close in on the relation between the use of abdominal muscles vs dorsal muscles, just to allow a horse to keep its back straight. We have seen the relation between ease of breakover and heel lift, we have also seen that the more break over is eased the less wedges are needed to gain maximum raise in the heel area.

I am convinced that problems like calf knees, buck knees, camped out and camped under stance will be alleviated by straightening out the HPA and providing correct support to the foot. However the exact amount of correction the heel and or toe area trimming wise is often hard to tell. That is where for me the banana shoe comes in. The self adjusting palmar angle feature of the banana takes away guessing part. A correctly fitted banana shoe allows the horse to take care of angles it self.

But rather than discussing banana's here we need to understand that heel height affects leg stance and leg stance affects dorsi flexion/extension of the back. If we take that a couple of steps further we'll see that stride length in an individual horse is not influenced by weight or foot length as such, it is influenced by the dorsi flexion/extension of the back.

And when everybody (I really hope) start pondering on that one also think of the thoracic area being more rigid where rounding or hollowing the back is concerned. Also remember that a low heeled front results in a camped out stance and a low heeled hind results in a camped under stance. And visa versa. A horse that is camped under both fronts and hind, either uses it's abdominal muscles too much for what ever reason or has high heeled fronts and low heeled hinds.

To all that really have no clue what we're talking about here, ya'll shoulda participated in the Online Conference this year :D


Ronald Aalders



I missed out Saturday night. At the Animal Health Foundation 25th. I was pleased Dr. Rucker discussed the banana shoe benefits. One of the phrases used was "rocker shoe".

Some of the confusion may simply be language. Benefits of discussion can be clarification. I do believe there is much more discussion needed.


Ron quote:
"To all that really have no clue what we're talking about here, ya'll shoulda participated in the Online Conference this year :D"

While it is difficult to be in two places at the same time. The Online Conference DVD's will allow for "catch up". (Baron has quite alot of post prodution work ahead of him preparing them for distribution.)

Even if you didn't attend the Online Conference, please consider requesting the DVD's. I'm sure it will be thought provoking, prompting more good discussion in the future.

It's been a good farrier weekend. :)

Julie :-)
Julie Plaster
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:COA - Banana shoe ??? 23 Nov 2009 14:17 #5

  • DavidinGA
  • DavidinGA's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 648
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 0
Ron,

Not to steal the thread here ( it is about banana shoes ) I was wondering if you ever use banana shoes on back feet?

The reason I asked is I was looking up information on capped knees in a book called "American Horseowner's Veterenary Encyclopedia" and ran across a picture of a back foot with a banana shoe on it. I don't remeber what the injury was but I'll try to look for it next time I'm at the guy's house who has the book.


Thanks
David
David H. Van Hook
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:COA - Banana shoe ??? 23 Nov 2009 17:21 #6

Yes Sir I sure do. Works great on stifle issues and obviously low heels. The banana lessens strain in the lumbar/sacro illiac area because less stifle and hock action is needed to overcome the long toe.


Ronald Aalders
Attachments:
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:COA - Banana shoe ??? 23 Nov 2009 18:01 #7

  • DavidinGA
  • DavidinGA's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Very Senior Member
  • Posts: 648
  • Thank you received: 2
  • Karma: 0
Ron,

Thanks for the reply, I had only seen mention on here of using them in the laminitis cases so I didn't realize they were used in the way you mentioned here.

Thanks for the Information
David
David H. Van Hook
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • GregTrem birthday is today
  • isagenixchallenge6A4A birthday is today
  • mercifulgimmickB72E birthday is today
  • AfflerbachDM birthday is in 1 day
  • CWFarrierSvcs birthday is in 1 day
  • jlthompson birthday is in 1 day
  • SlowShoe birthday is in 1 day
  • temposmom birthday is in 1 day
  • Antionette birthday is in 364 days
  • Awilda Buentello7D5B birthday is in 364 days
  • bennyjoe@shoeforyou.com birthday is in 364 days
  • Mike Wells birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.211 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.