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TOPIC: Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing

RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 08 Jul 2009 03:36 #46

  • Travis Reed
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Doc glad to see some changes coming as I stated before I feel it has its place in the industry. I feel from the feed back I have seen so far it may have more uses than what I may truly know. I look forward to what is in store in the near future. With a in depth clinic and a full explanation of its possible uses to the point I feel I can recoup my money back in a reasonable time I would have no problem paying the $495.00 I hope you did not take my feed back as running the product down, but as it was meant just feedback and im glad it did not fall on def ears. Thanks in advance and for your contribution to the forum
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 08 Jul 2009 05:42 #47

mwmyersdvm wrote:
The training session will likely change for more indepth educational experiences and other uses of the plate. Correct trims will be stressed more in the future. These discussions are presently ongoing so look for some considerable improvements in the near future.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

I like a plate/screw combination as well. I just fail to see why the hoofplate is superior over a cut up roadsign.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 09 Jul 2009 19:19 #48

  • Kelly Case
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I along with Chad have done quite a bit of work with the hoofplate and it does have its merits, one thing that we found was that the binding action of the laminea created by nailing into the hoof plate is extremely beneficial in treating laminitis and full blown founder.
A simple explanation is the hoofplate acts like a huge washer for the nails creating an even pressure over the horny wall and helps bind the distended laminea back together thermal images show a return of normal blood flow in the hoof.
We did some experiments here at ShurShod using the hoof plate in conjunction with the heart bar to support the coffin bone and have had some awesome results.

My problem with the hoof plate is that I personally have an issue with throwing a ton of screws into an already damaged and weakened hoof wall and I have seen quite a number of quicks which in turn cause abscessing because of the screw depth and placement. Now I could be wrong here but I was taught to do as little damage as possible to the horny structure, so we (Max and I) started experimenting with different methods of binding the laminea in a less invasive manner and have come up with a method that at this time seems to be working quite well, though the study is ongoing.

To touch on what Chad was saying about the trim I have to agree wholeheartedly, that the hoof needs to be trimmed and brought back to as close to normal as possible. I don’t understand Mike’s theory on leaving the hoof untrimmed with low heels and just applying the plate and a shoe. I also question leaving the horse go for 16 weeks between trims and hoofplate applications, especially considering that the hoof plate does seem to promote hoof growth.
Once our studies are far enough along that I feel comfortable with them I will be putting together an article with our data and images (radiographs, thermal images still pics and video) that explain what we have done.

Ron, the road sign will work but the fine for cutting one up isn’t worth it!!! LOL I find that a roll of plumbing strap that you can buy at the hardware store will do the same thing as the plate and is actually easier to work with than the plate itself and is more cost effective.
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 09 Jul 2009 21:20 #49

  • NicktheShoer
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Kelly Case wrote:
I along with Chad have done quite a bit of work with the hoofplate and it does have its merits, one thing that we found was that the binding action of the laminea created by nailing into the hoof plate is extremely beneficial in treating laminitis and full blown founder.
A simple explanation is the hoofplate acts like a huge washer for the nails creating an even pressure over the horny wall and helps bind the distended laminea back together thermal images show a return of normal blood flow in the hoof.

Sooooooooooooooo... I have to ask... Are you screwing the plate to the bone?
Sir Nicholas J. McDonald IV, Esq.
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 09 Jul 2009 22:07 #50

  • Rick Burten
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Kelly Case wrote:
......., one thing that we found was that the binding action of the laminea created by nailing into the hoof plate ...
Please detail how you are nailing into the plate, and why.
A simple explanation is the hoofplate acts like a huge washer for the nails creating an even pressure over the horny wall and helps bind the distended laminea back together thermal images show a return of normal blood flow in the hoof.
Once the laminae have disinterdigitated, how can anything bind them back together?
My problem with the hoof plate is that I personally have an issue with throwing a ton of screws into an already damaged and weakened hoof wall and I have seen quite a number of quicks which in turn cause abscessing because of the screw depth and placement.
Ever consider using shorter screws, fewer of them, and a methacrylate to hold the plate in place?
Now I could be wrong here but I was taught to do as little damage as possible to the horny structure, so we (Max and I) started experimenting with different methods of binding the laminea in a less invasive manner and have come up with a method that at this time seems to be working quite well, though the study is ongoing.
Are you actually binding the laminae together again or merely stabilizing the hoof capsule? If it is the former, please explain, mechanically and anatomically, how you can cause this action to occur.
I also question leaving the horse go for 16 weeks between trims and hoofplate applications, especially considering that the hoof plate does seem to promote hoof growth.
Perhaps that is a question best asked of and explained by Mr. Nolan. After all, he is the one with the most experience with the protocol, right?
Once our studies are far enough along that I feel comfortable with them I will be putting together an article with our data and images (radiographs, thermal images still pics and video) that explain what we have done.
I'll look forward to seeing the article. Will you be submitting it to the AFJ?
Also, the use of thermography is still rather controversial so I would hope that the other parts of the study will be better grounded.
I find that a roll of plumbing strap that you can buy at the hardware store will do the same thing as the plate and is actually easier to work with than the plate itself and is more cost effective.
What studies have you done to confirm this observation?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 10 Jul 2009 02:08 #51

  • chad rice
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Mr. Burten, while we are on the subject I was wondering your thoughts on the hoof plate. I don't know if you have used one or not, but I would like to hear an opinion from someone who has the knowledge of anatomy and the experience with laminitis as you.


Thanks, Chad
Chad Rice, CF
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 10 Jul 2009 11:25 #52

  • Rick Burten
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chad rice wrote:
Mr. Burten, while we are on the subject I was wondering your thoughts on the hoof plate. I don't know if you have used one or not, but I would like to hear an opinion from someone who has the knowledge of anatomy and the experience with laminitis as you.


Thanks, Chad
My experience with the plate is limited. That said, I've used bands and the like for much the same purpose and for me, its a mixed bag of results. Its not something I reach for first and foremost, but its nice to have the option.

And Chad, et al(exceptions noted), even though we're not going to hold hands, etc, its OK to call me by my first name. :)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 12 Jul 2009 21:26 #53

  • mwmyersdvm
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There has been some field research, but it is not very well documented. It needs to be more controlled and indepth on what the device actually does in certain situations. I will agree with you on the rapid hoof growth, I think people would be amazed at what it does.[/QUOTE]

There have been a number of case studies, but these do not qualify as research. The plan is to use each individual horse as his own control to see if the plate actually makes a difference and what that difference consists of. It has been observed that the sole depth is increased, heel angles have improved, and the solar cup has improved. These parameters and others will be measured with the opposing digit being the control on the same horse. Horses will be selected for hooves of similar conformation bilaterally. Any dissimilarities will be handled by using the plate on the worst of the two hooves by radiographic measurements using the Metron system. Then the opposing digit will be treated to see the effect while the original test digit will remain in a normal shoeing mode to see if the effect is lasting. Enough horses will be used so a statistical analysis will determine if the changes seen are actually significant and not random or biased.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 12 Jul 2009 22:42 #54

  • Gabino
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I had good results with an aluminium plate fixed with Equilox or only reinforcing the hoof wall with equilox and fiber glass.


Gabino Fernández Baquero

www.farriergabino.com
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 13 Jul 2009 00:06 #55

  • mwmyersdvm
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Gabinoherrador;166128 wrote:
I had good results with an aluminium plate fixed with Equilox or only reinforcing the hoof wall with equilox and fiber glass.

We have all had good results with a variety of appliances, but I have also had good results with no appliance and just a correct trim as well. So there is no control and no way of knowing how many things would work or why. So I do hope to get this project off the ground in the next few weeks and see if there is a definite benefit from the application of the appliance. I would love to test them all, but this is the only one that runs the possibility of being funded.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 13 Jul 2009 03:36 #56

So far I have not read about the mechanical effects the Nolan hoofplate or any other plate applied dorsally has on the hoof. I'm fail to see any mechanical advantage of the plate applied that way. Except for a dorsal crack that is. Could someone enlighten me?


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 13 Jul 2009 08:16 #57

  • Gabino
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Uff..a Spanish man try explain to nederland man in English language!!

The wall goes down and curved when the horse is walking. If the wall is poor (Lamennes or bad quality) it curved much and the laminae is pain. The aluminium plate nailed or fixed reinforces the wall and the dorsal wall can't go down.

The horse of the picture,has a extremely bad quality horn and their hoof wall is very very bad. It's extremely pain and sore. After heart bar+pad+impression stuff the horse is more comfortable,but even is pain. The P3 goes down and makes traction to laminae.The aluminium plate reinforce the dorsal wall and the horse improves.

Ron,go in holliday in Spain. You will learn Spanish and we will can speak farriery conversation and drink beer.
Gabino Fernández Baquero

www.farriergabino.com
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 13 Jul 2009 14:06 #58

Vacation in Spain sounds good to me!

I can see where a poor lamellar bond leaves the dorsal hoofwall open for distorsion by ground reaction forces acting upon it every time the foot breaks over. The hoofwall may well flare dorsally.

I just wondered if this effect is not better addressed by reducing those break over forces rather than strengthening the dorsal hoofwall. Not that I see any disadvantage to applying a plate that way other than we take away an indicator showing us breakover forces need to be reduced further.


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 14 Jul 2009 00:00 #59

  • Jaye Perry
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Ronald Aalders wrote:
Vacation in Spain sounds good to me!

I can see where a poor lamellar bond leaves the dorsal hoofwall open for distorsion by ground reaction forces acting upon it every time the foot breaks over. The hoofwall may well flare dorsally.

I just wondered if this effect is not better addressed by reducing those break over forces rather than strengthening the dorsal hoofwall. Not that I see any disadvantage to applying a plate that way other than we take away an indicator showing us breakover forces need to be reduced further.


Ronald Aalders

Forces in the toe sometimes needs force and then sometimes reduction of force. Depends on the cracks, heels and conformation.
:)
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 14 Jul 2009 05:25 #60

Thanks Jaye, that's a big help ;)


Ronald Aalders
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