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TOPIC: Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing

RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 04 Jul 2009 03:36 #16

  • calshoer
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Pat, Very Nice work. I have question though.
If the horse is to be out of work for a while anyway, why could you not have just done a straight or heart bar with a well floated heel to see if it would begin to grow in attached, (and still allow doctoring) then do a simpler repair later on the remaining a dry crack when the horse goes back to work?
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 04 Jul 2009 09:40 #17

  • reillyshoe
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The horse had previously been managed with an egg bar shoe and a floated medial quarter, and it did not work for this horse. Should the horse respond and grow really well, this repair would allow for some light conditioning down the road.

The thought process of floating the heel presumes that quarter cracks are a result of solar loading in the area of the crack. I am starting to question if this is in fact a causal factor in either the pathogenisis or treatment of the condition. At the very least, floating an existing crack might create additional shearing forces as the forces on either side of the floated region have very different forces and this might lead to undesirable hoof deformation.
P
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 04 Jul 2009 11:17 #18

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Jaye Perry wrote:
I know you are vying for the 100th spot in the "100 Top Farriers List". Doing one simple QRT crack ain't gonna get ya there.
I want that spot!

OK, that's really funny! I am not waiting to be surveyed for several reasons...

I think I posted some pictures of a sole crack a few months ago, and your heel crack is reminding me of that case. The more caudal the crack, the more difficult it can be to stabilize the defect. In some cases,the crack is so far back it cannot be done using the dorsal hoofwall. I have had some success incorporating the sole in the repair in an effort to stabilize the area. Just a thought, but you might consider extending the fabric in the repair you posted to wrap around the medial sole all the way to the medial frog commisure.
P
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 04 Jul 2009 16:21 #19

  • westtxshoer
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I really like this method of quarter crack repair. My questions are:
1. COULD this horse go back to work with this repair?
2. Is the glue's bond to the hoof wall strong enough to withstand say, a barrel race?
3. Are the materials used expensive? I really have no idea. I have used products similar in basic design for other things but never carbon fiber. (Edited-I just checked for myself and carbon fiber tape is not expensive.)

More to come, I am sure, when I think of them.
RJ Little
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817-341-9857

"I ain't askin' nobody for nuthin', if I can't get it on my own." - Charlie Daniels
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 04 Jul 2009 16:43 #20

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reillyshoe wrote:
The thought process of floating the heel presumes that quarter cracks are a result of solar loading in the area of the crack. I am starting to question if this is in fact a causal factor in either the pathogenisis or treatment of the condition. At the very least, floating an existing crack might create additional shearing forces as the forces on either side of the floated region have very different forces and this might lead to undesirable hoof deformation.

I have thought of this before. Floating a quarter crack puts different stresses on either side of the crack. The palmar side of the crack is forced upward when the foot hits the ground whereas the caudal is forced downward by the force of the musculature and weight of the horse. Am I wrong?
RJ Little
Merkel, Texas
817-341-9857

"I ain't askin' nobody for nuthin', if I can't get it on my own." - Charlie Daniels
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 04 Jul 2009 21:19 #21

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It is possible to compete with this set up, although I am obliged to state that it is not the fastest path to healing. If my horse had won the Derby and Preakness, I might consider working through the Belmont is he is sound. Everyone has an opinion on what is correct, and what is incorrect. I have put myself in more risk working through personal injury for less gain. Everything is relative.
The glue will hold, and expense is a relative term. I believe my total charge was around $250 for this horse.

Your thinking about floating is similar to mine. Of course, I don't know that either of us is correct.
P
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 04 Jul 2009 22:08 #22

  • westtxshoer
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Your thinking about floating is similar to mine. Of course, I don't know that either of us is correct
I am certain that I am correct. That is why I am starting a complete new shoeing practice. I'm opening the first school next month. I am going to call it "Force Shoeing" or "Shoeing with the Force." My shoeing practice will have a dress code though so be prepared. Purple jumpsuits and red Nike's, I should think.:rolleyes::D

Thanks for the post Pat and the info. Keep 'em coming.
RJ Little
Merkel, Texas
817-341-9857

"I ain't askin' nobody for nuthin', if I can't get it on my own." - Charlie Daniels
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 05 Jul 2009 11:04 #23

Jaye Perry wrote:
I know you are vying for the 100th spot in the "100 Top Farriers List". Doing one simple QRT crack ain't gonna get ya there.
I want that spot!

You guys don't stand a chance :D

Here's one! The first pic is the result of 2 farriers here in Holland working succesively on the crack. The last my work.

I never liked the lacing deal. I like plates and screws! Easier, cheaper, takes less time ánd can easily be removed and redone once the crack grows out.

As to floating, never float the entire hoofwall! Just bevel the hoofwall in a 45 degree angle. What you are looking for is leaving just the hoofwall and the stratum medium non weight bearing, NOT the stratum internum.



Ronald Aalders
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 05 Jul 2009 11:27 #24

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Ron,
Most farriers associate a jammed up coronet with an increase of solar pressure (I might not agree, but that is a common thought). Do you agree? It appears the coronet remains "jammed" even though the heel has been floated in the hoof that is growing out. Also, since one of the presumed benefits of the banana shoe is reducing the force incurred by the heels, is the floating really necessary, or more of a precaution?
I have no doubt that this works for you, I just like picking the brain of successful farriers.
P
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 05 Jul 2009 13:36 #25

reillyshoe wrote:
Ron,
Most farriers associate a jammed up coronet with an increase of solar pressure (I might not agree, but that is a common thought). Do you agree? It appears the coronet remains "jammed" even though the heel has been floated in the hoof that is growing out.

I have always been very careful not to deny the lamellar bond. A coronet gets jammed over time. The lamellar bond adapts, fixing that situation. Using aggressive methods trying to undo the jams fail to accept that the jammed coronet also caused the lamellar bond to adapt. More graphically (hey, I'm Dutch) the way I see it if we would drill a hole through both the hoofwall and P3 before the jam and check that drilling after the jam we would find that the hole in P3 is at the same spot where the hole in the hoofwall will have moved up. Floating does not undo this. It may help reverse the process though. But if we float by taking all away new damage occurs in the lamellar bond.


reillyshoe wrote:
Also, since one of the presumed benefits of the banana shoe is reducing the force incurred by the heels, is the floating really necessary, or more of a precaution?

For me the main advantage of a banana is reducing strain on P3 because the hoofcapsule has a chance to follow DDFT's lead without strain. Lemme explain. In a natural situation P3 wants to rotate because DDFT pulls. The hoofcapsule adds a lever, thus a counterforce against rotation/heel lift. This force is absorbed by the hoofcapsule through the lamillar bond for one. DDFT pull overcomes the counterforce and heel lift occurs. All this inevitably has it's impact on the bond between P3 and the hoofwall. That bond being that lamillar stuff. That lamillar stuff however has an extra function as well. It helps stabilize the hoofwall from the inside out. When the lamillar bond gives all kind of things happen to the hoofwall. Bulging, flaring etc.

When the foot grows P3 stays at the same spot relative to the COA. (Yes the COA is a reference for proximal/distal measurements too.) However the foot grows originating at the coronet alongside the walls of P3. This can only be explained when the bond between hoofwall and P3 is a non permanent on/off situation. People smarter than I am told me that had to do with an enzyme called MMP.

For me it is enough to know that the bond between P3 and the hoofwall is resembles something like an on/off ratchet. From that its not hard to envision what would happen the the hoofwall if that same hoofwall gets pushed up from the ground.

By the way this is not the same as saying that all jams originate from ground forces going up.

Well, did I make that #100? :D


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 05 Jul 2009 15:47 #26

  • Jaye Perry
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Ronald Aalders-I have always been very careful not to deny the lamellar bond. A coronet gets jammed over time. The lamellar bond adapts, fixing that situation. ..... But if we float by taking all away new damage occurs in the lamellar bond.

...

agreed! maybe a tie breaker will be coming up soon!;)
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 05 Jul 2009 16:33 #27

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Just FYI everyone. The two cracks shown here could have been more easily repaired with better mechanics by using the Nolan Hoof Plate. The plate uses the entire hoof capsule from caudal quarter to opposite caudal quarter for support thus distributing the forces over the majority of the hoof capsule rather than isolating it to a section. I have great results with its use in hoof cracks. These are beautiful repairs, but the plate would make them faster, easier, and mechanically more sound. It would also make the first one considerably less expensive in time and materials.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 05 Jul 2009 18:51 #28

Pat,

What type of glue did you use and where did did you get it and the fiberglass tube?
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 05 Jul 2009 19:13 #29

  • Travis Reed
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Mwmyersdvm
Just curious do you have any vested interest in the Nolan hoof plate as in financial? I notice you advise it to be a great product in more than one thread. I am by no means questioning it use I am just wondering if you think its that great of a product or are you connected with the product in any way? … or is it both you think is great and you back the product financially… I have never used the product but I do see it has its place in the Farrier industry. I also at one time was going to use it and looked it up for info and seen they had a class in Georgia @ Caseys school but the price I felt was a little to much I did not understand why they where charging for a demo on a product I was going to buy. I felt like it would be like buying a new tractor and the john Deer people charging me 500.00 for 8 hours to show me how to operate what I have bought..or vet tec charging for there help or that little DVD they give out for free
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Quarter crack repair with Stainlesss lacing 05 Jul 2009 19:41 #30

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mwmyersdvm wrote:
Just FYI everyone. The two cracks shown here could have been more easily repaired with better mechanics by using the Nolan Hoof Plate. The plate uses the entire hoof capsule from caudal quarter to opposite caudal quarter for support thus distributing the forces over the majority of the hoof capsule rather than isolating it to a section. I have great results with its use in hoof cracks. These are beautiful repairs, but the plate would make them faster, easier, and mechanically more sound. It would also make the first one considerably less expensive in time and materials.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.

The mechanics are not the same. The sutures allow for the crack to be pulled together before stabilizing with the additional reinforcing layers. If the crack was more stabile, I would have saturated fabric with adhesive with a goal of stabilizing the hoof. I think this process is easier than the Nolan Hoof Plate, provides similar reinforcement, and (as it molds to the foot) fits better. To each their own.
P
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