I have made about ten or fifteen forge welded barshoes in my life..... Just about very one I've done I had issue with the welding process. I can functionaly make the shoe, clean it, flux it and bring the shoe up to heat. I get the tell tale "splat" of flux and molten steel on my first whack, but it is all down hill from there. The scarfs pop right back apart, while I am working the lap and/or "frog point". I know I must be doing something wrong, just don't know what it is.
Give me a mig tig or stick welder and I can weld just about anything, when it comes to forge welding I suck. Any help or input would be appreciated by me and I thought it would be a good thread for us "rookies" to refer to, while preparing for certification.

Brian Purrington in gray, deletia

I can functionaly make the shoe, clean it, flux it and bring the shoe up to heat. I get the tell tale "splat" of flux and molten steel on my first whack, but it is all down hill from there. [bf emphasis mine]

If you're hearing a "splat", chances are, you're hitting it much too hard and your hammer blow is forcing the molten metal out of the weld site and the material that should be forming a weld is ending up on the shop floor. Use light blows of your hammer to squeeze the pieces together into a homogeneous unit - you're not trying to beat the shoe into submission.

I know I must be doing something wrong, just don't know what it is.

When you take your shoe out of the fire, don't let it touch the anvil until a nanosecond or so before your first light hammer blow. Your anvil is a heat sink.

Give me a mig tig or stick welder and I can weld just about anything, when it comes to forge welding I suck. Any help or input would be appreciated by me and I thought it would be a good thread for us "rookies" to refer to, while preparing for certification.

Unfortunately, the powers that be are probably going to insist that you leave your trusty TIG or MIG welder at home. You asked me what time it is, so I'm going to give you a one long sentence short course on watch building.

After you've got you masterpiece forged and ready to weld: scarf; brush with a butcher block brush; heat to red; flux; heat until the weld site turns the same color as the refratory in a gasser or the same color as the coke in a coal fire ("sparkles" over the workpiece mean your shoe is burning up and are not a Good Thing); take workpiece to anvil and tap lightly for the first few blows, then forge weld site as required - repeat as needed, there's no disgrace in another heat.

After you get the steps down and practice a little, you'll find welding in the fire is easy and you'll wonder how you ever missed a weld.

Hi Brian,
This may help a little along with Toms advice. If this link doesn't work, go to Forgemasters website and check out their different "tips'
Dave

Helps if I put it in:
http://www.forgemaster.com/view_section.php?section=38

Tom S....
You are probobly correct in your analysis of my "whack" I tend to get in a bit of a hurry and my nature wants it all to happen at once. I will try to go easier on my "splat". I was also under the impression that one heat is all you should take.
What you are saying is, I can get the bulk of my scarf to take and then go back to the fire and work out the lap joints...? I did this "sort of" on my last shoe and it worked well. I was less than satisfied with the amount of time that it took me, but I guess with practice I'll get "faster" Thanks for your input.

Brian,
To add to what Mr Stovall said there is a time to hit hard and a time to be gentle. The hotter your metal is the softer you work it right?

I once saw an old horseshoer demonstrate welding and to give a full understanding to everyone he made a barshoe, brought it up to welding heat then merely clamped it in his tongs when he pulled it out of the fire. It welded. I'm not sure if that can be done in a gas forge or not but in coal it sure will work.

I've also heard stories of the late Jim Linzy doing similar things. Try getting the lightest hammer you have and just gently tapping. Is easier than you think.
George

Brian,
anybody can come a cropper with welding
i have seen world champions strugle in coke

fires in a demo.
to give yourself every chance of welding
your prep needs to be right
on til then you wil not be consistent

all the light blows or hard blows wont matter
unless you have the right lent over lap

you have married them properly
you have cleaned well before you put flux on

you get an even heat in your bar through

and now you start praying

if you want to post some stages before your weld
maybe the lads can can give help

hold your tongue just right, rub you right ear lobe and wear your lucky boxers( I'll dress to the right on forge welding days) and you'll be all set!
Jason

Had to make a pair of egg bars the other day Jason
gaS WAS RUNNING OUT WAS I PRAYING

Something I learned from the late Francis Whitaker, a long time ago...

When welding thin cross sections, 3/16",1/4" & 5/16", I use a welding block as opposed to trying to pre heat my anvil. My welding block is 1"x2"x4" with a 1/4"x16" handle welded on. The block is heated while I'm building my shoes. After I have fluxed my scarves, I remove the block from the forge and set it on the anvil. Upon reaching welding heat, pull the shoe from the forge, set it on the hot block and make my weld. I tap it once, then flip it over and tap the other side and then back again. Depending on the gods, I often get the weld in one heat instead of two. Since I very rarely make more than 2 barshoes at a time I'm not sure how many welds you could make in a row before the block cools enough to no longer be of assistance.

I think that Jason has it right. I hold my breath the whole time, that's what works for me. Jake

Based on the amount of time it currently takes for me to forge weld, I think I'd pass out before seeing any results.... Thanks so much for your input guys, I think it will help. My wife helps alot in the shop and I'm sure she'll be happy when she doesn't have to duck behind the bench when my head explodes.... (I've got a good one who will strike for me or just help with tools, even sweeps up a time or two. I'd like to keep her around.) Hey Jason how do ya hold your earlobe and tongs at the same time?
I'll post some pics of the work later......

if your only welding now and again you cant exspect it to fall
in place for you

its like turning shoes or clinching right
you need to do it its that simple

even a simple thing like nailing and clinching
we all have standards with our work

keep at it try and do it better dont settle for less
dont give in to it

practice, practice practice

Brian Purrington wrote:
Brian,

Bring your tools Monday. The guys are working on Barshoes.
We will have a go with you.

Bob

Bob thats not fair you dident ask me