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TOPIC: Certification Shoe Fit

RE:Certification Shoe Fit 01 Mar 2007 01:50 #46

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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Gary, unfortunately I do not work hot much at all. Only if I need to pull clips, rocker a toe, or make extensions/trailers. None of this is needed very often. In this area working hot is actually viewed as wierd. It's not something very many guys do, what the reasoning is behind that is a mystery to me. Even when I went to school here in town we only really worked hot steel the first couple of days to make it easier on our arms while we practiced learning and making Simpsons five shapes. After that we worked cold the whole time except once or twice when we tried some hot fitting just to learn how to not get smoked out. All the people I've worked with have been cold shoers and that's just how I learned. I am now working on learning some forging since I have been talked into (sort of) taking the AFA CF test just to prove that I can pass it to a few people who didn't think I could.

I have been in the mode of just working to get them done for some time now. It is really what is expected by most of the clients I have because it is the norm around here. I have a full book of these type. I am not hurting for business, just hurting in the elbow form all the cold steel pounding.


Don, yea I have three kids. Two step daughters 19 and 15 and a son who is just about to turn four. He's the tough one to keep up with. Then I have a quarter horse stallion and a couple of mare I breed each year plus the outside mares and some semen shipping to parents and customers back in Montana. Some days it just doesn't seem like there are enough hours in the day to get it all done. I wish I had more time to ride instead of always being under them but this is what I chose to do so I do what I can to make it work. Making time to practice is work in itself, but I get it done a couple of days a week. I am going to a pre cert clinic with some guys who have offered to help me with the forging and will then go to the test if I feel comfortable with where I'm at. I don't plan on chasing it all over but will go to any close enough that it won't cause problems with business or family. I have put some work on here a couple of times and gotten really good feed back which has helped alot. In fact, I have learned more from the people here than form any other source I have used and I read alot and try to talk and work with other as much as possible. Problem is, not many guys here want to work together, so I learn mostly by myself. Luckily the horses don't suffer cause I won't do anything that I'm not comfortable with. Thanks.
Ben Sturman
AFA CF #7558

Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 01 Mar 2007 04:27 #47

  • Gary Hill
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Ben, be like that kid " Mikey" try it and you might "LIKE IT" and your elbow will not hurt as much. I have been working hot for all of the 29 yrs I have been shoeing and my elbows are fine. Now the carpal tunnel bothers me but thank God for Alleve! I can work shoes hot as fast or faster that a friend of mine does cold. The big plus is the fact when you charge more by working hot the clients don't seem to mind knowing you actually KNOW what your doing. I know your in AZ but it gets good and HOT here in Texas but the forge blows everyday! Stay after it your elbow will thank you! :D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 01 Mar 2007 05:11 #48

  • Donald Ruff
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Never heard of a kerckhart century.
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Slow is Fast and Fast is Slow
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 01 Mar 2007 05:19 #49

Gary Hill wrote:
Ben, be like that kid " Mikey" try it and you might "LIKE IT" and your elbow will not hurt as much. I have been working hot for all of the 29 yrs I have been shoeing and my elbows are fine. Now the carpal tunnel bothers me but thank God for Alleve! I can work shoes hot as fast or faster that a friend of mine does cold. The big plus is the fact when you charge more by working hot the clients don't seem to mind knowing you actually KNOW what your doing. I know your in AZ but it gets good and HOT here in Texas but the forge blows everyday! Stay after it your elbow will thank you! :D

Well Gary, I can vouch for that. My elbows and wrists use to kill me when I did everything cold. Sometimes my fingers even went numb. Learning how to work the steel hot and a lot of practice has paid off. I have no pain in my elbows or hands now. Plus in the winter here, it is really nice to stand next to the forge. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 01 Mar 2007 12:22 #50

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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
Gary, unfortunately I do not work hot much at all. Only if I need to pull clips, rocker a toe, or make extensions/trailers. None of this is needed very often. In this area working hot is actually viewed as wierd. It's not something very many guys do, what the reasoning is behind that is a mystery to me.

I guess I'd just be a weirdo then. I cold shod a horse two weeks ago and it made me feel immoral. :eek:

More than likely, the guys around your area don't hot shoe because they learned to do it cold and never had someone teach them how to hotshape/fit. It requires a lot more skill and practice to move hot steel properly. I've heard all kinds of excuses for not hotshoeing, but none hold any weight.

Invest in the tools you need, good tongs, hammer, and a round horn anvil.

Your elbows and pocket book will thank you! :)

Bo
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 01 Mar 2007 12:50 #51

Working hot is the only way I will work, even on horses that refuse to be hot fit. I'll cool the shoe when I'm ready to fit. I've heard every reason in the world for and against cold shoeing/hot shoeing and all reasoning aside, I HATE BEATING ON COLD STEEL. I have even walked away from work because a prospective client wouldn't let me use my forge. The benifits of hot fitting a horse are not only for the "fitter" but also for the horse, you'll loose less shoes, and I think the overall horn conditions respond better over time. just my 2 cents.....
Brian R. Purrington
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www.wellshodhorses.com
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 02 Mar 2007 14:12 #52

  • beslagsmed
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Brian Purrington wrote:
I have even walked away from work because a prospective client wouldn't let me use my forge.

Happened to me once. I got setup, lit up the forge. The lady started to complain - her other farrier never did it that way, why did I have to do it, on and on. She started complaining from the first, so I knew I could never please her. I loaded up my van, and told her if she didn't like the way I worked she could find someone else. I drove off leaving her holding her horse.

Never been back.
Mikel
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 02 Mar 2007 15:30 #53

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beslagsmed wrote:
Happened to me once. I got setup, lit up the forge. The lady started to complain - her other farrier never did it that way, why did I have to do it, on and on. She started complaining from the first, so I knew I could never please her. I loaded up my van, and told her if she didn't like the way I worked she could find someone else. I drove off leaving her holding her horse.

Never been back.
Mikel


For people like that I just ask.....Where's your other farrier now???? :D
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 08 Mar 2007 02:18 #54

  • FIVESTAR
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Here is a foot on a horse that was brought into our horseshoeing school to be shod. It was getting late so I decided to make a Journeyman run on it and get some pictures. After Convention and getting my butt kicked in the Live Shoeing, I'm practicing every day.... :D

This horse had not been shod since last September and was severly neglected. I wanted to show that even if a foot has issues, you still need to fill the prescription asked and shoe the horse perimeter fit at certification.

He was shod with 12 1/2" of 5/16 x 3/4 and bumped 1/4" into the toe. (You'll notice the heels have been notched on on the last picture. This is NOT acceptable in certification...)


Dusty
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 08 Mar 2007 02:35 #55

  • calshoer
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Since it wans't an actual certification, I would hope you would have pulled that perimiter fit practice shoe off and reshod him to get the breakover point back more correctly .(like at least an inch back from where it is). Because that fit isnt doing the horse any favors.
Patty
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 08 Mar 2007 03:15 #56

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Patty,

Thanks for your input. The objective of this thread is to show AFA guidelines of perimeter fit and that is what is shown in the photos. Had I posted the before photos of this horse that was severly neglected, anyone would see that he is much better off than he was prior to being shod.

I wanted to show those farrier's that are currently working towards their certification what to look for and hopefully those people will benefit.

Dusty
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 08 Mar 2007 07:19 #57

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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 08 Mar 2007 11:23 #58

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calshoer wrote:
Since it wans't an actual certification, I would hope you would have pulled that perimiter fit practice shoe off and reshod him to get the breakover point back more correctly .(like at least an inch back from where it is). Because that fit isnt doing the horse any favors.
Patty

Patty- it would be great if you could change the word correctly to something else. You don't know anything about this horse, you can't possibly suggest where breakover should be.

Also, since your replying to certification. Any chance you can post a pic of a perimeter fit shoe. then lay you nb shoe over top so we can see how well you fit your shoes. A nice narrow foot that you have to change the nb toe would be great. Thanks.
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 08 Mar 2007 11:51 #59

Thanks Dusty,,I'm heading out to Danver's to finish my CJF in april and any help I can get is great. I find that in my area the perimiter fit is misrepresented by guys chaseing the toe foward instead of trimming the balance into the foot then fitting or they just putting a bigger shoe on to add cauldel support and leave the toe full thickness.I normally need to do a more radical trim to get that foot headed in the right direction but after a few sets I can put more relief in the shoe and less removal of horn in the toe. I'm glad to see that the new NB shoes are rolling the toe quarters more, always wondered why when they would put another on in the same place when the shoe they removed was so blown out in one toe quarter or the other. Protocal I guess, not sure if the shoers useing them are NB or just not into building there own square toe. Was popular here for a few years but now most farriers just back up the toe with there own forged shoe. Thanks again
Skip Messick CJF
" If you get to thinkin' you're a person of influence, try orderin' someone else's dog around" - Will Rogers
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 08 Mar 2007 12:47 #60

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Bo Terry in gray, deletia

It requires a lot more skill and practice to move hot steel properly.

Nonsense. Hot and cold shoe shaping are just motor skills and neither requires more skill and practice than the other to do properly when "properly" is defined as fitting the foot exactly as one wants it fitted.

I've heard all kinds of excuses for not hotshoeing, but none hold any weight.

While there's no excuse for not doing one's dead level best to give every horse what it needs, no excuse is needed for failing to hot fit every shoe. The object of the exercise is to give the horse what it needs, not to light a fire.

When was the last time you hot fit a pony shoe forged from 1/4" x 1/2"? Hot fit an aluminum race plate? A steel training plate? Any shoe in an OR? Personally, if I'm following myself or somebody who can shoe, I'm not going to light a fire when I reset any non-clipped shoe smaller than a Kerckhaert two.
Tom Stovall, CJF
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