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TOPIC: Certification Shoe Fit

Certification Shoe Fit 22 Feb 2007 04:06 #1

  • FIVESTAR
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I've wanted to talk about perimeter fit on the practical portion of the certification process. I'm not the best photographer but here is a picture of a horse that I fit today that is a good example of shoeing perimeter fit according to the AFA guidelines.

When you clinch your foot, you should only have to clinch nails and not have to rasp the foot back to the shoe. It's fitting the shoe to the foot and not fitting the foot to the shoe.... I especially see this in hind feet where candidates pull the shoe back off the toe. That's not what the guidelines require... The shoe should be fit around the foot that you trimmed and not underneath it.

I hope this helps some of you. (I'll work on my photography in the meantime. :p )
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 22 Feb 2007 17:49 #2

  • smitty88
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its hard to see the photo that well Dusty
looks a solid enough job

for every day job i might have gone with a tad more lenth

i might have burned the clips in more
and set the toe under a bit more


would i have failed ?

if i get a chance tomoro Dusty i take a pic of a hind

every day shoeing
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 22 Feb 2007 20:21 #3

Smitty,
The "standard" for AFA testing is perimeter fit only... There is no latitude on that so "technically" yes you would have failed. Would you have failed the horse...? Probobly not.
Brian R. Purrington
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 22 Feb 2007 21:23 #4

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Dusty,
working cob 3/4 fullered hind foot toe cliped
try get you a hunter hind quarter clips tomoro
Smitty88
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 03:34 #5

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Here are some more pictures of the same foot I posted earlier. It had been mentioned that in everyday shoeing, you would bring the shoe back on the foot. That is the part where everyone seems to struggle. This isn't an "everyday" shoeing job. The task at hand is to meet the guidelines the AFA has set forth. Meaning, it must be perimeter fit. Regardless of what would or should be done on an everyday job...

Smitty,
This looks like excellent work to me.... The foot in your photo looks to be shod very well.

Dusty
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 07:25 #6

  • Rick Burten
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Dusty,

How much would you have been penalized for covering the commissure with the heel of the shoe(left side of picture)?

What would you have declared for your heel fit?

And its important to note that for the certification, the shoe would be plain stamped vs fullered.

Rick
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 07:42 #7

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Dusty,
if you were back off the toe slightly with the shoe would you have failed and same goes for Ricks point

what im realy trying to say when do you decide to pass
or fail

as you well no there is false in every job

i thought i read some where a student can be stoped
at stages of the test

is this true

if you got a reasonable foot and you dident dress it
level or balance it good

would you be stoped at this point?
Smitty88
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 13:38 #8

  • Rick Burten
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Smitty,

The practical exams have three scoring phases:
1. Hoof Preparation
2. Shoe Quality and Fit
3. Nailing, Finish and Fit.

Each phase has several areas that are evaluated on a 1 - 10 basis. A candidate has to average " 7 " on each area of each phase in order to "pass" and move on to the next phase. Any score of "3" or lower is an automatic stop. In reality, if a candidate gets a score of "4" in any area, the odds are s/he will have a ***ulative phase score that is insufficient and the candidate will not be allowed to continue. Rarely did I ever see a candidate who had gotten a "5" in an area, recover well enough in another area of the phase to be able to continue.

So, effectively, the range winnows down to 10 at the top and 5.5 at the bottom. Since 10's are awarded about as frequently as they are in Olympic gymnastics, the effective scoring range is 5-9/9.5.smitty wrote:
if you got a reasonable foot and you dident dress it
level or balance it good

would you be stoped at this point?
Speaking only for myself, when I was a tester, the answer is yes.

Rick
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 15:24 #9

Smitty,

Rick's given you a pretty good overview.... As he indicates, the test is scored in three phases, and you have to get through each section to be scored in the next.

I agree with him that the scoring scale is a bit misleading. It presents as a ten-point scale, but since a three or below is an automatic stop, the scale effectively becomes a seven-point scale.

The extremes of the functional scale (4 & 10) are not as rarely used as he indicates, although his assessment is probably pretty accurate for the way it would have worked when he was serving as a tester.
smitty88 wrote:
if you were back off the toe slightly with the shoe would you have failed
No. You would lose points.
smitty88 wrote:
if you got a reasonable foot and you dident dress it level or balance it good would you be stoped at this point?
No. You would lose points.
smitty88 wrote:
i thought i read some where a student can be stoped at stages of the test. is this true
Yes. Failing to average a score of seven within one of the three phases (Hoof Preparation, Shoe Quality and Fit, or Nailing and Finishing) results in a stop, and receiving a three or below on any specific element results in a stop.

Receiving a score of three or below is rare; it is generally reserved for something that constitutes a flagrant departure from the prescribed trimming/shoeing method, or--more often--something that is detrimental to the horse. Drawing blood, nail quicking, trimming so that the sole feels squishy, and such....
~~Danvers

Danvers Child, CJF

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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 16:18 #10

  • Andrew Grimm
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The new guidelines state that the testie must indicate which type of shoe fit before the test starts; an A fit, B fit, or C fit.
In my opinion it makes sense that certain feet should be fit with more expansion and heel however, for somebody who's taking the CF, CTF test in which most testies use a premade shoe; it poses much difficulty, and confusion.
I feel that the A, B, and C fits should be more for someone taking the CJF test rather than the CF, or CTF test.
Andrew Grimm, CF, RJF
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 22:06 #11

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What type of fits are A, B, C anybody
Smitty88
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 22:53 #12

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Someone correct me if I'm wrong or incomplete, but I believe the song goes like this...

"A" Fit is a dimes width of expansion, no boxing

"B" Fit is a dimes width expansion with a dimes width of boxing

"C" Fit is a dimes width expansion with two dimes width of boxing
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 24 Feb 2007 23:30 #13

  • George Geist
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Hey Smitty,
The test their talking about IS the British WCF test. The AFA took their test and scoring procedure and use it virtually unchanged.

Does Ireland have such a testing? If they have one is it required by law?

Just wondering.
George
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 25 Feb 2007 00:03 #14

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Andrew Grimm wrote:
In my opinion it makes sense that certain feet should be fit with more expansion and heel however, for somebody who's taking the CF, CTF test in which most testies use a premade shoe; it poses much difficulty, and confusion.
Why? Shouldn't a candidate for either the CF or CTF credential possess the requisite knowledge, skill and ability to make a decision on heel fit and then be able to actually implement it?

Seems to me that we are trying to promote competence not incompetence.

Rick
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RE:Certification Shoe Fit 25 Feb 2007 02:04 #15

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Guys and gals,

In posting these pictures I really wanted to address the issues of fit at certification. If you'll notice, the foot has not been clinched. I wanted to emphasis that at certifications, candidates will rarely fit the foot that they trim. The shoe should fit the foot before the clinch or finish is done... That is the only way to truly see if a foot is perimeter fit and that is why we score the fit before the shoe is nailed on. If you are practicing for certification, a good way to test yourself on fit is: when you put your foot on a finish stand, you should only have to rasp the nails and not hoof. If you have hoof hanging over the shoe and have to rasp it to the shoe... then you are not perimeter fit.

The whole idea of certification is to show that you can fit a "prescription" that the AFA has set forth. If you can do that, you should be able to shoe a horse the way you feel it should be shod.

When the AFA implemented the A, B, and C fit, the idea behind it was to allow the candidate more opportunity to work with the horse's conformation. For example, a more upright foot would benefit from an A fit whereas an underslung foot would need to be a C fit. That gives the candidate more latitude in determining the length of the shoe. On the reverse side of that, you have to remember that once you tell the tester or Examiner what type of fit you are going to apply, you will be judged to that standard.

The whole test is on a scoring system as Danvers and Rick has previously pointed out.

Hope this helps...

Dusty
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