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TOPIC: Modifying Machine Shoes

RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 09 Feb 2007 18:41 #46

Rick Burten wrote:
The difference is that its not six year olds who are having trouble with the shoe display. And their comments are based on their own experience, not necessarily that of others.

Seems to me that if we clean the language up, and provide examples of minimum levels of acceptible work, we solve the problem.

Rick

The analogy wasn't meant to imply that I or anyone else was purchasing a truck at six or having trouble with the shoe display at that age. It was about getting an idea into your head and keeping it there.

Following Mr. Tom's lead, we tend to refer to it as the "daddyditithatway" approach, and I was referring to it as problematic not only in terms of resistance to or ignore-ance of changes in trimming and shoeing feet. I was talking about the fact that people do not seem willing to accept that the certification program is advancing and improving; instead, they seem very willing to believe and propogate the belief that it is static.

As for their comments being based on their own experiences, that is demonstrably not the case. Quite a few of the complaints registered have come from folks who have not attempted the test, and a number of the complaints stem from quite dated experiences. I'm not sure about the specific situation here, but from what Brian has said, I don't think he's submitted a display yet.

I'm not claiming that the program is perfect. I am saying that it's improved, that it's continuing to improve, and that acknowledging those improvements probably wouldn't kill you. The guidelines booklet that you and I started with was woefully inadequate. The new one is a vast improvement that did exactly what you've suggested: it cleaned the language up and provided better examples. The language could stand more cleaning up, and more and better examples could be provided, and there is every indication that the Certification Committee is willing to do so and will continue to refine their efforts. In fact, the new booklet has already been revised once with that goal in mind. The program is dynamic and evolving, not perfect, but certainly not static.
~~Danvers

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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 09 Feb 2007 20:09 #47

Danverschild,
I want to apologize for leading you to think I had any problem with the AFA or the certification test... I am a member and have been so for about 3 years now. No I have not submitted my board and no I have not taken the test. My post did indicate that. I merely was expressing what I have been hearing from others for about 2 years now with regards to the interpretation of the shoes. Maybe, as you have indicated, things have changed... but to my recent knowledge there have still been some issues. I know that there are standards set forth in the study guide, and maybe I don't have the most current one (2005) so, I will look at the new one. I do understand the "fitting to a pattern" idea... I've been doing it for some time now. I just wanted to get across that I personally had been discouraged from taking the test due to reliable and connected sources telling me that I need to make the shoes to :"fit within what the testers/examiners are looking for".(not just to the standards of the study guide) By the way I will take the test and probobly will do just fine. If not, there is always next time

Respectfully,
B.R.P.
Brian R. Purrington
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 09 Feb 2007 23:41 #48

  • Rick Burten
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danverschild wrote:
I'm not claiming that the program is perfect. I am saying that it's improved, that it's continuing to improve, and that acknowledging those improvements probably wouldn't kill you.
Sorry if you feel I have not acknowledged improvements in the program. I thought I had. For all the improvements, there are still some, what appear to me to be, glaring inconsistencies and we keep hearing about them over and over. Its those things that could and should be better addressed. Perhaps they are under review. I suppose I'll know more after sitting in on some of the committee meetings, including certification, at convention. Besides, if these issues are known to the committee, wouldn't it be a simple enough task for the committee to acknowledge that and let the membership know that they are working on solutions. Yet again we have an example of a failure to communicate. Seems to be endemic in the AFA right now.

Rick
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 09 Feb 2007 23:47 #49

  • Gary Hill
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 10 Feb 2007 22:22 #50

  • Donald Ruff
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Here are my keg mods.
Did not have any smal bar shoes.
Forged from a size 1 SX-8 to about a 00 bar shoe.
For a little mare here at the barn. Shoes will be clipped up and she will be shod with 3deg wedges and silpak. I'll post pics when she is all finished up.
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 10 Feb 2007 23:46 #51

Nice looking work Donald.
Phil Armitage, CF
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 01:26 #52

  • smitty88
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Nice work Donald love to see the mare shod
Smitty88
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 02:41 #53

  • Donald Ruff
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Thanks Phil, Smitty.

Smitty, I have a hard time getting my weld to disappear when i weld it. I have been trying for a while with little to no luck any suggestions, hints, or insight on this?

Don
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 03:35 #54

  • Gary Hill
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More flux and keep your anvil face clean. :)
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 04:37 #55

  • Donald Ruff
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More flux could be the key huh?

My anvil face is clean and hot. SHoe is clean and fluxed well I might try a little more.

I was always under the assumption that flux was to clean the area of your weld not to weld it.
Don
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 05:29 #56

  • George Geist
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Don,
After getting a weld like the one you got, bring it up to one more welding heat and just lightly tap the line with a round part of a ball pein hammer to make the line blend in and disappear.

It is much easier to do IMO with coal. But it can be done in gas too. Important thing to remember is it is a participants sport. Keep practicing and it will just happen.

The key is often in the prep. have the end of your scarf really paper thin. That will help too.
George
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 11:17 #57

  • smitty88
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George is on the money Donald
if your working in the coal you dont need flux to weld
it .

your first heat is to weld 2nd heat some flux to clean up

can be down to how well you marry the scarfs

how much scarf you allow
how clean is your coke fire

how clean and how good is the coke your useing
if your useing the coke fire
put the shoe in the fire in a way that you can see each

side getting the same heat turning it from side to side
with out upsetting the fire equal heat both sides

also keep the lid of your flux cap pluged
dont leave around in the damp for better results





hope this helps
Smitty88
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 15:17 #58

  • Gary Hill
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Granted flux does sweat and clean but you can pull the edges and blend it where it hides the weld. Trying to remember what clinic I was at and who demonstrated it, but it worked?
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 19:24 #59

  • Donald Ruff
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George,

I fully realize that this is a participant activity. I build a few shoes everday in the shop. Though the wife doesn't like it she just lets me do my thing :D .

I'll have to try the ballpein thing. I tried the round side of my rock but it didn't quite turn out as nice.

I am pretty sure I could thin out the leading edge of my scarf more.

Smitty,

I am forging in a gasser. Never worked the coal before. Something I would really like to learn how to do. Maybe next winters project :) .

Gary,

I have head that before, I think it was described as a wash heat for your weld. Roy Bloom.

Thanks guys for the great ideas. I am going to sneak out to the shop after the bills are paid. I'll post up my ******* steel later today.

Don
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RE:Modifying Machine Shoes 11 Feb 2007 19:34 #60

  • smitty88
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Smitty,

I am forging in a gasser. Never worked the coal before. Something I would really like to learn how to do. Maybe next winters project .



Donald once you get a few goes in the coke you will love it
its a softer heat then the gas

you get a better feeling for shoe making i think

would anybody share that view
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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