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TOPIC: Stick welders...

RE:Stick welders... 21 Nov 2006 20:14 #31

  • smitty88
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Just Shoe It wrote:
Smitty,

You are the man! What a heck of a little trick, I went and got just regular alum. welding rod with no flux and welded a bar into a shoe like ive been doin it that way my whole life.

Problem solved!

Thanks


Thats great news
glad to help all we need now is Jaye to drop in and say hello
Smitty88
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RE:Stick welders... 21 Nov 2006 20:49 #32

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Head 2 Toe wrote:
By 70% huh? Do you carry this? I really like that handle, but how hot does it get? I do little projects that sometime have me running a torch for +/- an hour.

I was getting a new torch head this week, maybe not.
OH YEA. I wouldn't use it for high production welding on 1/2" plate steel, but it does cut like plazma and it does weld like TIG. The inner cone on the flame is very concentrated - a lot longer and a lot hotter than a regular Oxy/Ace torch flame. You can get a welding puddle going on 1/2" x 1" bar stock with the #3 tip in about 10 seconds.

Not only does it use less gas, but it allows you get to to welding heat faster - using even less gas. The inner cone on the flame is very long, very hot, and very soft. So you don't blow your puddle away because you are only using 4PSI gas and 4PSI Oxy. I love putting on drilltec with this baby. You can write your name on a shoe with borium or build it into a 2" tall spike , yea, why would you want to do THAT? I don't know, but it's a danged nifty tool.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 02:08 #33

  • Mike Ferrara
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Just Shoe It wrote:
Smitty,

You are the man! What a heck of a little trick, I went and got just regular alum. welding rod with no flux and welded a bar into a shoe like ive been doin it that way my whole life.

Problem solved!

Thanks

You guys lost me. What exactly is it that worked so good?
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 08:44 #34

  • smitty88
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
You guys lost me. What exactly is it that worked so good?

i supose Mike this would be good for the farrier
that could not aford welders

that might not have the room in there van for bigger stuff
its just another toolin your box as Jaye would say

if it helped any one in any shape or form
that has to be good

why knock it
or am i taken you up wrong
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 11:38 #35

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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tbloomer in gray

Henrob torch

OH YEA. I wouldn't use it for high production welding on 1/2" plate steel, but it does cut like plazma

A Henrob, or any other correctly adjusted O/A torch will make satisfactory cuts in ferrous metals, but won't quite cut "like plasma." Plasma will cut anything that'll conduct electricity - e.g., steel, stainless, bronze, aluminum, brass, copper, zinc, body parts, etc. O/A is pretty much limited to steel - I've forgotten the chemistry, but it's something to do with the affinity of O2 to Fe.

and it does weld like TIG.

The process is similar, but there's no inert shielding gas to protect the weld from oxygen embrittlement.

The inner cone on the flame is very concentrated - a lot longer and a lot hotter than a regular Oxy/Ace torch flame. You can get a welding puddle going on 1/2" x 1" bar stock with the #3 tip in about 10 seconds.

Not only does it use less gas, but it allows you get to to welding heat faster - using even less gas. The inner cone on the flame is very long, very hot, and very soft. So you don't blow your puddle away because you are only using 4PSI gas and 4PSI Oxy. I love putting on drilltec with this baby. You can write your name on a shoe with borium or build it into a 2" tall spike , yea, why would you want to do THAT? I don't know, but it's a danged nifty tool.

For me, a Henrob wasn't nearly as versatile as a Victor Journeyman and O/A, but if everybody liked beans, there wouldn't be nearly enough to go around.

IME, the one thing a Henrob can do better than any other tool in one's box is filet braze - with a little practice and good fit up, one can join thinwall tubing with slick, smooth, seamless, filets that are completely without transition lines. Folks fabricating high end, filet brazed, bicycle frames love Henrobs.:)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 11:56 #36

Mike,

I just noticed that two pic. that Smitty posted arn't coming up...

The idea with welding alum with the mapp gass is a good one. like Smitty said, for guys who cant afford a welder, no room in a rig, not enough power at barns, or just plain having trouble welding with torches. The mapp gas get the shoe hot enough to see a puddle you have a chance to start adding your rod.

My expreince with torchs was as quick as I got the shoe puddling the shoe was a wreck!

Thanks again Smitty.
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 12:13 #37

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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
A Henrob, or any other correctly adjusted O/A torch will make satisfactory cuts in ferrous metals, but won't quite cut "like plasma."
The cut made by a Henrob on ferrous metals has a very thin kerf - thinner than a hacksaw blade. So in respect to the fine cut vs. a sloppy cut a regular cutting torch is inferior. You can use the Henrob to burn cuts through thin aluminum as well, but it only works on straight cuts over a relatively short distance - like whacking off a piece of aluminum bar stock. It leaves about 1/8" kerf when you cut 5/16" aluminum - hacksaw or bar shear is a better choice for that stuff anyway (on the shoeing rig).
Plasma will cut anything that'll conduct electricity - e.g., steel, stainless, bronze, aluminum, brass, copper, zinc, body parts, etc. O/A is pretty much limited to steel - I've forgotten the chemistry, but it's something to do with the affinity of O2 to Fe.
Again, relative to a shop production environment the plazma cutter is superior. It just ain't practical for the portable shoeing rig.
The process is similar, but there's no inert shielding gas to protect the weld from oxygen embrittlement.
Henrob does a great job on stainless if you adjust it for a carburizing flame - sort of shields itself that way. For cast iron (with regular forge welding fulx) it does a nice job too. You have to pre warm the part when you weld cast iron . . . I have welded cast iron to steel using mild steel rod and Swan Magic Weld flux. No bead, just a clean blend. It helps to have shade 7 goggles when you are using flux. :)
For me, a Henrob wasn't nearly as versatile as a Victor Journeyman and O/A, but if everybody liked beans, there wouldn't be nearly enough to go around.
I had both setups on my rig with hose splitters on the Oxy/Ace regulators. For my fabrication needs (as a fully portable farrier setup) the Victor setup was less efficient. I donated the Victor setup to an auction to benefit the LA/Katrina farriers . . . Danny Ward bought my Victor setup - he loves it.
IME, the one thing a Henrob can do better than any other tool in one's box is filet braze - with a little practice and good fit up, one can join thinwall tubing with slick, smooth, seamless, filets that are completely without transition lines. Folks fabricating high end, filet brazed, bicycle frames love Henrobs.:)
I used it to rework my NC Tool anvil stand. The stand is 14ga square tubular steel. It welds the thin stuff like butter. Theres this video of a guy using a Henrob to weld a vertical bead of aluminum up the side of a soda can. I figure the guy is a brain surgeon or something. I drink way too much coffee to do that. :) The guy I bought my Henrob from welded a borium cylindar on the heel of a shoe. The cylindar is about the size of a soda straw and about 2" tall. TOM, Imagine the borium toe grabs you could weld on a half round with that torch!!! . . . sorry make that F@#$%^& borium toe grabs.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 13:02 #38

  • Mike Ferrara
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smitty88 wrote:
i supose Mike this would be good for the farrier
that could not aford welders

that might not have the room in there van for bigger stuff
its just another in your box as Jaye would say

if it helped any one in any shape or form
that has to be good

why knock it
or am i taken you up wrong

I think you're taking me wrong. I was trying to ask what equipment was being used. I guess some of your pictures are missing.
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 16:49 #39

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
I think you're taking me wrong. I was trying to ask what equipment was being used. I guess some of your pictures are missing.

sorry if that was the case Mike
i delated the other two pics by mistake on photobucket

still trying to get the hang of this computer stuff
then i taught the one pic would do

but if you want the other two back on shout
and they will be up

do you weld much alis shoes
i think its a cheap and handy way out
Smitty88
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 17:15 #40

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Mike this is all you need
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 18:32 #41

You guys drive me crazy. Every time somebody comes up with an idea like Tom's Henrob other throw in other ideas.

I do not want to become an ace welder. I do not want to weld stainless or cast iron because I don't use stainless or cast iron shoes. You guys do? What I want is a practical and easy to use set up to weld aluminum. Preferably someting that allows me to weld aluminum as easy and as fast as I can weld steel with my rod welder

For me Smitty's deal is out. He's talking minutes to make a weld!

Sounds like I have to by the ac/ox bottles and a Henrob to go with it?

But then what? Buy rods for an AC/DC arc welder that have an aluminum core and a covering that like on steel rods protects against oxide getting into the weld? What about space to work on? Just a steel plate or do I need a heat stone like Smitty's using?

Help me out but remember the key words guys! Practical, fast, efficient ;)


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 19:03 #42

  • Joey Aczon
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ron, the alum rods for ac/dc welder are just as fast as the steel. Use the same table and everything. They take usually don't come out as pretty of a bead but still sand down nicely.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 19:11 #43

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Ronald Aalders in gray

What I want is a practical and easy to use set up to weld aluminum. Preferably someting that allows me to weld aluminum as easy and as fast as I can weld steel with my rod welder

For me Smitty's deal is out. He's talking minutes to make a weld!

Sounds like I have to by the ac/ox bottles and a Henrob to go with it?

But then what? Buy rods for an AC/DC arc welder that have an aluminum core and a covering that like on steel rods protects against oxide getting into the weld? What about space to work on? Just a steel plate or do I need a heat stone like Smitty's using?

Help me out but remember the key words guys! Practical, fast, efficient ;)


Get yourself any kind of O/A torch - Henrob, Victor, Harris, whatever. Buy a couple of pounds of 1/8" flux coated aluminum electrodes and keep 'em in a plastic rod safe because they're extremely hygroscopic. Find yourself a piece of junk steel plate, any thickness larger than 1/4", about 12" x 12", for a backing plate.

Place backing plate atop anvil. Place fitted aluminum shoe and addition atop plate.

Light torch, adjust flame to neutral. Heat workpiece; simultaneously, move electrode in and out of heated area, occasionaly touching electrode to workpiece. Regulate heat by moving torch to and from the workpiece. When the heated area of the workpiece becomes plastic, feed the electrode into puddle. It'll take a little practice, but it's easy as pie once you learn how - and it's about as simple and fast as it gets in terms of time from setup to nailup.:)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 19:19 #44

Can we get step my step specific instructions and a supply list and maybe even where to get the stuff for Smitty's way of welding that aluminum. I would love to try this. Thanks
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RE:Stick welders... 22 Nov 2006 19:26 #45

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Ronald for once you have lost me
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