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TOPIC: Attaching pads to shoes

Attaching pads to shoes 16 Nov 2006 13:34 #1

In school, we were taught to use the fourth nail hole to attach the pad to the shoe, cut the nail off close and bend it over, cut the pad to fit the shoe, nail the whole thing on the foot, then remove the two nails used to hold the pad on to the shoe. I've removed a few shoes with the pads riveted to the shoes at the heels, and heard you guys talk about this several times. Does it really make that much difference? If so, how would I go about doing this and what equipment would I need? I have riveted things before (sides of my shoeing box, horse trailer peices, etc) Is it the same thing idea? And what is the best equipment for cutting pads? I had some bad luck trying to cut a wegde pad the other day (pretty embarrasing when you get to a client's place and can't cut a pad!) so I bought a jigsaw but haven't had a chance to try it yet. Also, if you don't mind, what do you charge for adding pads? These are my prices right now, and I am curious if they are OK or not....

Pair of pads and hoof packing
Flat 15.00
3 degree wedged 20.00
Frog support 20.00
Frog support with traction 20.00
Anti-snowball (winter use) 20.00
*Addition of materials (instead of packing under the pads, or alone)
Equipak sole support 10.00 per tube inch
Equipak-CS 12.00 per tube inch

Sorry for the multitude of questions... I just feel like I really need some help with pads! I wish there was a farrier in this area that did this kind of thing that I could watch for a few days... Anybody know of any?
Julie Mills
Complete Equine Farrier Services

Phillipians 4:13
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 16 Nov 2006 14:34 #2

  • beslagsmed
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I use the 4th nail hole as well. Works great for me, see no reason to change. For prices I figure mine as such: cost + 50% for my time and such. I don't have a pad cutter, just mark the pad, cut with my nippers, attach to shoe, then finish with rasp. Probably a few easier ways, but works good for me.

Mikel
Mikel Dawson, RJF

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What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 16 Nov 2006 14:59 #3

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Complete Equine in gray

In school, we were taught to use the fourth nail hole to attach the pad to the shoe, cut the nail off close and bend it over, cut the pad to fit the shoe, nail the whole thing on the foot, then remove the two nails used to hold the pad on to the shoe.

That's one way of doing it and how I do it with thin leather flats, but like most things to do with farriery, I think the best answer is probably, "It depends." For me, if I'm using plastic flats/wedges/bar wedges or thick/multiple pads, I shape the shoe, drill holes in the heels, rivet the pad(s) to the shoe with copper slating nails, then drill the nail holes before nailing.

I've removed a few shoes with the pads riveted to the shoes at the heels, and heard you guys talk about this several times. Does it really make that much difference?

For me, a pad stuck to the shoe and pre-drilled nail holes is the most efficient way of doing things.

If so, how would I go about doing this and what equipment would I need? I have riveted things before (sides of my shoeing box, horse trailer peices, etc)

In addition to your usual stuff, you'll need a drill motor, center punch, several drill bits about 1/32" larger than the diameter of whatever you're using for rivets (I use Cu slating nails, but you can use galvanized roofing nails - or even horseshoe nails in a pinch), extension cord, riveting hammer (any small ball pein), and stout end cutters; additionally, you'll need some way to cut the pads to shape.

Is it the same thing idea? And what is the best equipment for cutting pads? I had some bad luck trying to cut a wegde pad the other day (pretty embarrasing when you get to a client's place and can't cut a pad!) so I bought a jigsaw but haven't had a chance to try it yet.

Lots of folks use a box cutter to cut pads, but I've always used leather shears or nippers for light pads; a band saw, or a jig saw for heavier stuff. Whatever the means of cutting the pad to shape, Mr. Makita and his 24 grit assistant does most of the finish work. If you're using lots of heavy pads and wedges (i.e., shoeing long footed horses) a band saw is the way to go; for occasional use, a jig saw mounted upside down on a small, flat, table is much faster than using shears/nippers - but that nekkid blade moving at warp speed is scary as hell. (Please note that I didn't mention a pad cutter - this was not an oversight.)

Also, if you don't mind, what do you charge for adding pads? These are my prices right now, and I am curious if they are OK or not....

I don't price another man's stuff, but I charge a minimum of $40 a pair for plain vanilla leather/plastic flats/wedges/bar wedges - and the price of poker escalates considerably for multiples and esoteric packing.

As an addendum, when you're using pads, it'd probably be a supergood idea for you to drive the heel nails, then drop the foot and take a good look at the fit of the shoe/pad on the hoof in order to make sure everything is kosher before you finish nailing on the package. If you think not having some way to cut a pad to shape is embarrassing, wait 'til you have to pull the masterpiece you've just nailed on because it's skewed on the foot - with a veterinarian, an owner, and a trainer all watching you like a hawk watches a field mouse.

If/when it happens, you'll know exactly how the folks in those Southwest Airline's "Wanna get away?" commercials feel. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 16 Nov 2006 15:05 #4

Hi C.E!


We had a thread about this topic a ways back. Here is the link:


http://www.horseshoes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2983&highlight=pads

I use the inverted jigsaw method to cut the pad after I've nailed it to the shoe.

I use 4.5 or 3.5 race nails tapped through the pad assembly until just the tip of the nail shows through ( send the nail through over the pritcheling hole in my anvil heel) bend over the top of the nail so that it bends to the inside of the choe, then flip the shoe over and hammer over the exposed tip this "staples" the pad(s) to the shoe and after nailing the shoe on all you have to do is pull out the bent nail!

I do rivet the heel parts of the pad to the shoe using copper rivets. This stops (usually) any shifting of the pad and helps reduce the amount of crud that packs into the padded cavity if youfor somereason don't use a hoof packing material under that pad. My favorite is Epona hoof packing www.eponashoe.com easy to mix, easy to store, no heat in the set up, trimmable after set up and comes in cool lavender color! They also haveantibacterial granules which work great under the packing!

Drill through the shoe and pad ( this is where a drill press comes in handy - but a hand drill will work if you have a firm grip and steady hand) keep plenty of drill bits on hand until you perfect your grip.

Place the rivet hole well back on the heel branches so that the horse's hoof heels don't get scrubbed by the rivet.

I shove the copper rivet through so that the wide flat head faces the hoof.

Trim off the exposed point end of the rivet so that about 1/8 or slightly more of the rivet shoes above the ground side of the shoe. Use your ball pien hammer to peen the rivet flat. Voila! One riveted pad!

hope this helps!
Regards,
Kim
Regards,
Kim

Those who only consider cost, do NOT consider the cost to the horse!

The more we know, the more we know we need to know more! Ya know?
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 00:04 #5

  • brian robertson
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Tom, what's your beef with pad cutters? Mine's never given me any trouble in 30+ years, used most days and still has the original blades.
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 02:04 #6

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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brian robertson in gray

Tom, what's your beef with pad cutters? Mine's never given me any trouble in 30+ years, used most days and still has the original blades.


When I was shoeing lots of horses, a padcutter was simply too slow. For a kid starting out, good leather shears and/or nippers are cheaper and make short work of light leather and plastic pads; when he gets to shoeing a few, a jig saw mounted upside down is both cheaper and faster than a pad cutter - and, if he ever gets off into shoeing long footed horses, bandsaws rule.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 02:53 #7

  • calshoer
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Coping saw. Fast and dirt cheap. Nuff said. :D Patty
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 04:12 #8

  • SlowShoe
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calshoer wrote:
Coping saw. Fast and dirt cheap. Nuff said. :D

Patty, aint it a bit hard to hold a pad in one hand and saw with the other? I'm picturing the pad bending around and not cooperating.
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 16:08 #9

  • calshoer
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Patty, aint it a bit hard to hold a pad in one hand and saw with the other? I'm picturing the pad bending around and not cooperating.
I dont hold the pad and shoe in my hand. I put the shoe and affixed pad in my shoe vise, with the shoe on top.
Since the saw blade is set to cut on the upstroke,(toward the handle) the shoe effectively creates the surface that keeps the pad from bending. Works like a champ. Takes a little fineses to not break the thin saw blade ,but with the right 'feel' it floats easily through the pad. Since both hands are free, if cutting real thick or strong material pads like NB, it helps to pull the tail end of the cut pad away from the rest as you cut, so the saw doesn't bind. Also if a wedge pad, start the cut at the thinner toe of the pad instead of in the thick heel. Do one side than the other.
Some of my friends use bandsaws .They are great for pad cutters, but I dont have one in my truck.
Patty
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 16:21 #10

WoW~ Thank you all for such wonderful advice!!!! I appreciate it a lot. :)
Julie Mills
Complete Equine Farrier Services

Phillipians 4:13
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 16:48 #11

  • Rick Burten
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Thirty or so years ago when I bought my Duval Pad Cutter it cost me IIRC, $110.00. I see that today, it costs $224.00 and replacement blades cost ~$40.00 I generally replace my blades once a year.

Back when I bought the Duvall, pads averaged about one to two dollars a pair and I was charging ten dollars a pair for new pads and five dollars a pair to reset them. That first year, I put on over 100 pair of pads. Do the math. The pad cutter was an inexpensive, easy, fast, not electric dependant, way to cut pads. Faster and with much less physical effort than shears or nippers.

Today, I get a base minimum of $20.00/pad new and $20.00/pair reset. Leather pads today cost anywhere from $5.00 - $10.00($16.00+ for drafters).
Plastic, et al pads today cost anywhere from $3.00 - $10.00/pair(highly specialized pads excepted). Again, do the math. If you put on as few as ten pair of pads a year, a pad cutter can pay for itself in one year. And generally speaking, you don't have to worry about cutting off any fingers or other appendages.

YMMV

Rick
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 19:23 #12

  • Mike Ferrara
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I use a jackson pad cutter and I like it. I've used a jig saw and it's ok but the pad cutter is lots faster. I've done the nipper thing but those days are over.

I use an angle grinder to finish the pad to the shoe prior to nailing and I drill the nail holes from the shoe side and open them up from the foot side.

If I'm putting on more than a light flat pad and the shoe is fit considerably wider than the foot (I do some long footed horses) I set the package on the foot where I want it and trace the foot on the pad with pencil. Then I grind the pad stack to just shy of the line. That makes setting that package right when nailing and minimizes the amount of finish rasping you need to do.

Most of the time the package is riveted at the heels with roofing nailes.
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 22:34 #13

  • brian robertson
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Ditto Rick. But why are you so hard on your blades? I admit I've had to grind out a nick or two over time but they are easy to sharpen up on a powered whet stone.
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RE:Attaching pads to shoes 17 Nov 2006 22:47 #14

  • Derin Foor
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I still like my dremmel tool with a cutting 'drill bit' attachment for cutting pads....... you can cut out the clip area with relative precision and do it fast, clean it up on the grinding belt

$20.00 per pair plus packing which varies in cost

Derin
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