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TOPIC: 3 heat shoe

RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 02:21 #31

Donald Ruff OFFLINE Senior Member Posts: 460 Karma: 0	Dave, It's just for fun. Seeing how much speed you can put into it. Nothing more, atleast for me it is. I have no children, just me and the wife and our ponies and dog's. So my bottom line keeps us comfortable. Just fun nothing more Don
	Knowledge is Patience and Patience is Knowledge Slow is Fast and Fast is Slow The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 03:03 #32

Donald Ruff OFFLINE Senior Member Posts: 460 Karma: 0	Ronald, Sorry did not get an pictures of Jake today. Got to wrapped up in a horse at the end of the day and it slipped my mind. He is due this week for shoeing. So you'll get pics of him and sliders. I am sure you'll have plenty to say about that . Need any help there in The Nederlands? I have two weeks open at the end of October. My two week vacation that rolls around ever eight weeks. Don
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RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 11:21 #33

Mike Ferrara
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Dave Purves wrote:

Can anyone explain to me when you may be required to make a one heat shoe? Don't get me wrong it is impressive, but if you really want to impress me show me your books, teach me how to make more money, or spend less money or both. I would rather spend my hours learning about the business end of my pencil, than practicing to make a one heat shoe, that I'm quite certain will not help my bottom line.

I watched Billy Crothers make a one heat shoe, clipped and ready to nail. Pretty amazing.

Dave

The business end...

I'd have to run some numbers but If I could make a one, two or even a three heat shoe that fit the horse when I was done, hand mades might be more attractive financially. Right now it's mostly the time and labor that makes them costly. Of course, buying bar stock in 80 inch lengths and having it shipped is no bargin. The local steel supplier stopped stocking common shoe-sized stock so the days of getting 20 ft lenghts for a few bucks is over for me. That combined with what I'm paying for propane means that I'd have to make a shoe really FAST for it to pay off.

Even at that, the savings over a days worth of shoes wouldn't justify standing in front of the forge on a hot day when the flies are bad. What would make it attractive is the large EXPENSIVE stock of pre-made shoes that I wouldn't have a bunch of money tied up in. When you think about it, most of us have a lot of money sitting in the truck...it's the old "just in time" inventory thing. If you're not turning that inventory over pretty fast you need to consider all the interest that you aren't earning on that money.

As it is, I only use hand mades when I must and I get $40/pair. Even at that, I try to make them at home so I can spend barn-time under a horse instead of in front of the forge because time under a horse pays better.

So far, I don't charge extra for most keg shoe modifications. That depends on how you look at it though because I try to charge enough that I can afford to modify a few. In a way, I'm making everyone pay for it whether they use it or not. I just don't bill it as a seperate line item.

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RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 12:04 #34

smitty88 OFFLINE Guru Posts: 6951 Thank you received: 64 Karma: 13	i have made about five 1 heat shoes but the best i have seen dave duckett 1 heat shoe about 30 years ago its a bit of fun if i am making pairs for the horse 15 min ready to fit
	Smitty88 John Mc Loughlin The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 12:15 #35

IRNWKR_2 OFFLINE Senior Member Posts: 419 Karma: 0	Smitty, this one heat shoe was it creased? Jason G.
	Jason Gilliland "whether you think you can or think you caint your usually right" Henry Ford "Im not as good as I once was, but Im just as good once as I ever was" My Grandad "a wink is as good as a nod, to a blind mule" Barney Fyffe The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 12:20 #36

smitty88 OFFLINE Guru Posts: 6951 Thank you received: 64 Karma: 13	made 1 plain stamped the others where concave
	Smitty88 John Mc Loughlin The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 13:40 #37

tbloomer
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Mike Bailey wrote:

Bob Scrazio and I hope I spelled that right was telling me a storie at a certification about a one heat bar shoe made by Dave Ferguson.
I asked Dave to demonstrate this when I was at his shop in 2004 he smiled declined but explained it was done in coal and with two pair of tongs the toe bend was compleated before the shoe was brought out of the fire.
Mike

The name is spelled S K R A D Z I O. One of my favorite people.

Bob Skradzio, Sr. will be 77 this year. Started shoeing horses when he was 13. Still shoeing today. Bob is a walking talking book full of 64 years of shoeing history.

My favorite Skradzio quote, "Horseshoeing is a very simple thing."

Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404

Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.

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RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 13:51 #38

Mike Ferrara
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I've never seen a shoe built in one heat and I can't even visualize the process. I can visualize a two heat shoe even though I can't do it.

I can even punch nail holes in one branch in a single heat...and then only when I'm making several pair. I just don't do it every day or even every week.

smitty, if you can make a pair in 15 minutes, ready to fit, you're adding half an hour minimum to shoeing the horse. A half an hour equates to what? Half a horse? That seems significant. I can't make a pair in 15 minutes but even if I could, my average charge for shoeing a plain shod horse is about $140 Us (I get 125 - 160 depending on where) so I'd need to get ($70 - the cost of having a pair of kegs in the truck) just to break even...and that's not even considering the cost of bar stock, fuel or the heat and sun that I might have to tolerate to be in front of the forge.

Don't get me wrong, I have put dozens if not hundreds of hours into making a knife and you can buy a dandy one at walmart for $20 but if I'm shoeing horses I'm away from home doing things for other people and I like to get paid for it.

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RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 14:00 #39

smitty88
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tbloomer wrote:

I've seen Reuben King do a one heat eagle eye shoe to fit a pattern. Also saw Sam Gooding do a one heat shoe. Both of these guys have spent thousands of hours practicing for forging competitions. It would be really cool to see how much shoe somebody like Bob Marshall or Billy Cruthers could make in one heat.

I'm happy when I can forge a decent heel and a toe bend in one heat.

Tom
Billy would do that shoe in an act
but just to let you know

there are a dozen lads between Ireland,Wales,Scotland,England
equally as talented if not better

Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin

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RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 14:10 #40

smitty88
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Mike Ferrara wrote:

I've never seen a shoe built in one heat and I can't even visualize the process. I can visualize a two heat shoe even though I can't do it.

I can even punch nail holes in one branch in a single heat...and then only when I'm making several pair. I just don't do it every day or even every week.

smitty, if you can make a pair in 15 minutes, ready to fit, you're adding half an hour minimum to shoeing the horse. A half an hour equates to what? Half a horse? That seems significant. I can't make a pair in 15 minutes but even if I could, my average charge for shoeing a plain shod horse is about $140 Us (I get 125 - 160 depending on where) so I'd need to get ($70 - the cost of having a pair of kegs in the truck) just to break even...and that's not even considering the cost of bar stock, fuel or the heat and sun that I might have to tolerate to be in front of the forge.

Don't get me wrong, I have put dozens if not hundreds of hours into making a knife and you can buy a dandy one at walmart for $20 but if I'm shoeing horses I'm away from home doing things for other people and I like to get paid for it.

Mike
i make the 4 or 5 pair a week just to show the app
i use machine shoes every day

but like to keep intouch with shoe-making

Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin

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RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 14:13 #41

tbloomer
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Dave Purves wrote:

. . . teach me how to make more money, or spend less money or both . . . Dave

Salesmanship and marketing skills are what drives every business to the top. Unfortunately, those skills are very rarely found in the same person that is also very good under a horse and in the fire. Dave Farley is one of the best businessmen I've met in this trade. If you get a chance to attend one of his seminars there's a lot of good business strategy.

I've tried my best to get farriers that I meet to talk strategy and marketing. Sometimes I feel like I'm beating my head against the wall. It frustrates me to be a rookie in a trade where the well established professionals with skills and experience far beyond mine are charging 20% less than me.

Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404

Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.

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RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 14:27 #42

Jaye Perry
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tbloomer wrote:

........ Dave Farley is one of the best businessmen I've met in this trade. If you get a chance to attend one of his seminars there's a lot of good business strategy.

....

Did that for Purves a couple years ago in Lexington,KY. Purves came down to help me and was determined to get a leg up into higher clietiele. So I took him over to meet Farley and conversated.
While I was driving home from the show Purves called and said Farley wanted his help in Nashville, they boarded a private jet and the "personal consult" was given.

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RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 16:35 #43

Phil Armitage OFFLINE Guru Posts: 9254 Karma: 0	I can make a one heat shoe, the trick is to never let it cool down.
	Phil Armitage, CF AFA member 7480 "Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:3 heat shoe 17 Sep 2006 17:08 #44

tbloomer OFFLINE Master Posts: 4622 Thank you received: 20 Karma: 1	Jaye Perry wrote: While I was driving home from the show Purves called and said Farley wanted his help in Nashville, they boarded a private jet and the "personal consult" was given. THATS what I'm talkin' about!!!
	Tom Bloomer http://blackburnforge.com 302-222-6404 Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple. The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:3 heat shoe 18 Sep 2006 01:52 #45

Mike Bailey OFFLINE Senior Member Posts: 423 Karma: 0	I have only been lucky enough to meet Bob once and he had a lot to share.He kept my wife entertained while I was testing for the CJF.Would like to see him agin one day.I missed his clinc at Abners last year not much I could do about it. Mike
	Mike Bailey, CJF "If your not part of the solution,than your part of the problem." Dr. Chick Gandel Plan for success, Be prepared for failure The administrator has disabled public write access.