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TOPIC: Mild steel shoes

Mild steel shoes 08 Sep 2006 15:46 #1

Well, I am just getting started in Farrier work and have a question about the different manufactured shoes. How do I know, when ordering, if a shoe is drop-forged or mild steel. I have been practicing my anvil work on some old shoes that we had laying around from years past and have ran into a pair that I am having a heck of a time getting much steel to move. Especially when trying to pull a clip. Most of the old shoes that we have I can pull a clip cold, with some work mind you. But this set that I am having problems with are really hard, even when heated. I just want to make sure that when I buy shoes that I am getting something that is malleable so that I can work with them easily, at this point in the game anyways.

Thanks in advance for any input.

Tyler Shea
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RE:Mild steel shoes 08 Sep 2006 17:06 #2

  • George Geist
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If those shoes are extremely old it is possible they might be wrought iron.

This requires more heat. It forges and welds well but not below a yellow heat. Just have to know what it is that youve got.

Some manufacturers have intermittently come and gone with cast shoes. I never saw such shoes of high quality. If that is what youve got perhaps consider them for fishing sinkers or bookends or something else more useful than they are as horseshoes.

Basically, the majority of shoes have traditionally been made from what is known as 10-20 hot rolled. Diamond in the past had a high content of molybdenum(spelling?) in their steel which gave them a work hardening quality.

This was why they seemed harder to shape after a horse wore them than they were new. I have no idea if this still occurs since they were bought out and moved but the old ones were that way for many years.

If making from barstock, 10-20 hot rolled is the order of the day. Should suit your needs. For more about steel and everything there is to know about metallurgy visit www.anvilfire.com

Hope that helps
George
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RE:Mild steel shoes 08 Sep 2006 20:21 #3

  • Rick Burten
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If you are using a forge, then you should be able to work any of the steel shoes you have or run across. If you are pulling clips and making other major modifications cold, then I suggest you stop that practice. It will teach you a lot of bad habits, make you deaf, and wear out your arms quite prematurely.

Drop forging is a manufacturing process, not a measure of steel content. Most steel shoes are manufactured from mild steel.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
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RE:Mild steel shoes 08 Sep 2006 21:53 #4

  • Rancho JD
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along with work and wear hardening some of the old shoes laying around may have been shaped in the forge then quenched hot.

I practiced cold shoe shaping for a year before attending an 18 month school where the instructor was keen on forge work. after that i went back to cold shaping for another 3 years or so because the ranchers and outfitters that employed me didnt have forges and i was just scotch enough to not cut into my poverty wages to fuel my own forge. i'm reminded with achey pain and numbness in the left front when the weather turns wet and cold.

if you really need to shape used cold shoes i hope you at least have tongs
Hit on 16 stand on 17 and split those aces, merry christmas!
'panhandler' Reno, Nevada.
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RE:Mild steel shoes 09 Sep 2006 00:26 #5

  • SlowShoe
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If your looking for good shoes, I would like to recommend Ray Steel's horse shoes. I use them for most everythign these days and they great to work with and nail up nice.

http://www.horseshoesunlimited.com
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RE:Mild steel shoes 09 Sep 2006 02:47 #6

Thanks for all of the info. Just to clarify, I am practicing on pulling clips, ect. with old shoes. I don't yet have a forge but do have a torch in the shop that I heat the shoes up with. I also don't have a clip on the anvil so that may be slowing me down some, I don't know. I had some better luck tonight though, so maybe all I need is more practice.

Thanks again,

Tyler Shea
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RE:Mild steel shoes 09 Sep 2006 03:17 #7

  • calshoer
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You dont need a clip horn in the anvil to make a nice clip.
Any edge that is reasonably sharp (not all rounded off )will do. Jaye posted some really good pics here of clipping using a ball pien on the edge of the anvil just a little while back.
Any shoe will clip nicely if you heat the clip area to bright orange. It helps if you must use a torch to secure the torch in something so you can hold the shoe in the flame not visa versa, then you aren't fumbling around putting the torch down before you get your tongs and clip hammer in your hand etc and lose all your heat in the shoe.
A lot of the the old shoes your practicing one are probably "work hardened" just from use. They get that way when they've been on the horse a while, from the pounding.
Patty
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Mild steel shoes 09 Sep 2006 04:40 #8

  • SlowShoe
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If all you have is a torch, you can make yourself a temparry forge. Run down to place that sells wood stoves or fireplace stuff. Get yourself some firebrick or refractory brick (refractory preffered) and make yourself a poor boy forge. Stack the bricks together to make an enclosed space with and openeing for the shoe. cut a hole in the side of one of the bricks (should be easy to do with a drill, the stuff is fairly soft) and stick your torch in there.. Light it and you have a forge. Works with a propane torch as well.



Sort of like this. Make the space smaller jsut for a shoe and stick your torch head in there.. But the OXY/AC torch may be too hot. You could turn it down I guess. But you'd be better off useing a small plumbers propane burner. Or one of those weed burners that run off of a propane tank.

More info here. http://www.jamesriser.com/Machinery/GasForge/PropaneForge.html
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RE:Mild steel shoes 09 Sep 2006 16:51 #9

  • Mike Ferrara
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Years ago I was getting some diamond shoes that were hard. I mean so hard that you couldn't open or close them cold. The hammer would just bounce off without bending the shoe at all.

I think that sometimes the steel used for shoes is less than consistant in it's carbon content. A36 is a good example. Sometimes it will harden some if quenched and sometimes it won't so, comming along and having to reset some one elses hand mades can leave you with a darned hard shoe too.

As far as I know, none of it is high carbon steel though so technically I guess it's all "mild".

I too, have drawn a few clips cold. Mostly, on polo shoes back when I did lots of polo ponies. I plead guilty to doing some cold shoeing but not that cold. LOL I'll open or close one and maybe turn in a branch cold but no more cold clips!
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RE:Mild steel shoes 10 Sep 2006 12:01 #10

  • tbloomer
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You can build your own forge . . .

You can find most of the how-to information and the materials on the following web sites.
http://ronreil.abana.org/SiteMap.html
http://www.geocities.com/zoellerforge/sidearm.html http://www.anvilfire.com/sales/pages/index.htm
That's where I started . . . then I went on to build something a little more complicated.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Mild steel shoes 11 Sep 2006 00:08 #11

  • Rick Burten
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Yeah, but Tom you forgot to mention that you told me that your forge will suck a 30# propane dry as fast as a dehydrated camel will drain an oasis of water.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Mild steel shoes 11 Sep 2006 03:28 #12

  • tbloomer
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Rick Burten wrote:
Yeah, but Tom you forgot to mention that you told me that your forge will suck a 30# propane dry as fast as a dehydrated camel will drain an oasis of water.
Only when you run it up to 50psi. Once the liner is warmed up it loafs along at 2psi. Considering that I can get a pair of size 3's up to forging heat in 75 seconds (90 seconds in January) from a cold start and then shut it down . . . try that in a Forgemaster. I think when it comes down to fuel consumed over time to forging heat - time is money.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Mild steel shoes 11 Sep 2006 15:00 #13

  • SlowShoe
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tbloomer wrote:
time is money.

So is fuel.

Ans what the heck are your burners made out of? It looks like candle stick holders.
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RE:Mild steel shoes 11 Sep 2006 16:56 #14

TBloomer

Did your forge swing in or was it kept outside your truck?
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RE:Mild steel shoes 14 Sep 2006 20:29 #15

  • tbloomer
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Burner tubes are cast iron. They output about 125k BTUs each. The forge is mounted on an NC tool swing arm.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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