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TOPIC: nail placement

nail placement 14 Aug 2006 15:31 #1

Okay this maybe be a very basic question to most of everyone here, but I will ask anyway. how do those who have apprentices or helpers teach them to find the right pitch of the nail. The few that i have driven always seem to be to low and have to be removed and driven again. Is there a someway to practice away from a horse (sounds weird but i just want to get better)
Redd Mcintyre
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RE:nail placement 14 Aug 2006 16:47 #2

I feel the area on the hoof where I want the nail to exit, then aim the nail for that while I'm still feeling it. That is usually pretty accurate. You can ever-so-slightly tweak the tip of the nail one way or the other to encourage a higher or lower exit if there's something altering the course of the nail such as an old nailhole or super-hard horn.

This is how I had been taught. The only thing I've changed is that when I feel the area on the hoof that I want the nail to exit, I seem to automatically want to use my ring finger. Don't know if there's a good scientific reason for that, or if that is just me.

Good luck!
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RE:nail placement 14 Aug 2006 20:45 #3

  • solidrockshoer
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Redd, nailing is like "putting" in golf, some are naturally good at it and others have to practise like crazy. Either way the more a person nails, the easier it becomes. Here is a few points to consider;
1) Point the nail slightly inside of where you want it to come out because it starts to curve as soon as you strike it.
2) Nailing should start close to the white line.
3) 3/4" is the ideal height for the nail to come out but "stuff" happens so remember that once horn is cut it doesn't mend. If your nails aren't perfectly lined up but have a good hold, leave them and pick up one or two of them in the next setting. Hopefully this doesn't happen too often. ;)
4) A straighter wall will be more difficult to nail to than a slopped wall is.
5) Start your nailing lightly and increase the force as you notice the nail reaching the desired heighth. (increased force = increased curvature)
6) Try to follow the fiber angle with your nails as much as you can for this destroys the least amount of horn.
There are many more considerations e.g. nail size, shank style, posture etc. but I can't empasize enough how practise on the real thing is the only way I know of feeling comfortable nailing. Personally I have always loved the challenge that nailing presents. If I was to grade my nailing over all, it would probably rate a 95-97%, which means 1-2 nails in a setting were not perfect. They would be holding well but not exactly where I would like them. On occasion perfection is attained, this after many years, so don't be too hard on yourself and learn to aim higher, bevel to the inside. :D
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RE:nail placement 14 Aug 2006 21:07 #4

  • Bill Adams
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What I do to get nice straight rows, even from the shoes at the proper hight is to have one of my sons nail and clinch.
If I have to do it, I start with fitting the shoe so the holes are where you want them to be.
Then the other great sugestions above and a couple of thousand feet.
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:nail placement 14 Aug 2006 22:09 #5

The best way to ensure good nails, is a properly shaped shoe. If the shoe is shaped and fit correctly, my seven year old son could drive decent nails. I'm not talking about contest quality but good usable nails. Most of the shoeing that I see that have really low nails, are due to poorly fit shoes. If the nail holes line up up on the white line, and you pitch the nail to the angle of the hoofwall, nailing is easy. If the shoe isn't fit properly and your nails are outside of the white line you will have low nails, unless you pitch them way inside, and many times end up having to "fish-hook" the tips to get them to come out without quicking the horse.

jmo
Dave
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:nail placement 15 Aug 2006 01:49 #6

Thanks for the tips.
Dave I have been shown to start the nails in the wall. You said in your post to start them in/on the white line. I have shaped shoes for my mentor but have used the perimeter wall as a guide with a quick look at the bottom, maybe this is why he is finishing the shaping with a couple of hits on the stall anvil. So if I an get the nail holes to follow the white line better I should be able to get higher nails. I guess sometimes I get hammer shy worrying about quicken a foot.
thanks for your advice
redd mcintyre
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RE:nail placement 15 Aug 2006 02:54 #7

  • beslagsmed
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I'm not the best nail driver in the world, but gettng better. I have problems getting them in a line. Right now I just try to get them high and safe. I feel the horn quality has an effect on my nailing. I am improving, hopefully someday I can drive a line all day long.

Mikle
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:nail placement 15 Aug 2006 03:02 #8

  • Gary Hill
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Redd, learn to read the whiteline when you are shapeing your shoes. Sometimes you will need to punch an extra hole to use instead of the factory nail holes. Straight walls on the medial side, old flares on the lateral side all these things can be overcome by punching new nail holes. Supporting the whole foot by balancing the shoe to the balanced foot. Good Luck! Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:nail placement 15 Aug 2006 04:15 #9

  • SlowShoe
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Gary, good point about punching nail holes!

Sometimes if the hoof is distorted (like an old flare that only goes a a bit of the way up the hoof can be a pain. Further complicated when the horses feet are shelly. Sometimes you are unable to get a good useable nail so you have to punch a new nail. But on good feet it should be a lot easier to get a nice nail set in a nice line. My middle nail seems to be a bit higher a lot of the time.


-josh
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RE:nail placement 15 Aug 2006 06:20 #10

  • smitty88
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good nailing can be determined by how well you preper your foot
how well you fit your shoe

if its a poor quality machine shoe with bad pitch and nail placement
if its a poor hand made as same

if your only starting out you need practice and confidence
if you have a poor foot doesent help

i find it easy driving nails but if i dont get some of the above right
its harder
Smitty88
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RE:nail placement 15 Aug 2006 16:05 #11

  • smitty88
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EileenHughes wrote:
I feel the area on the hoof where I want the nail to exit, then aim the nail for that while I'm still feeling it. That is usually pretty accurate. You can ever-so-slightly tweak the tip of the nail one way or the other to encourage a higher or lower exit if there's something altering the course of the nail such as an old nailhole or super-hard horn.

This is how I had been taught. The only thing I've changed is that when I feel the area on the hoof that I want the nail to exit, I seem to automatically want to use my ring finger. Don't know if there's a good scientific reason for that, or if that is just me.

Good luck!

you say tweak the tip of the nail one way or the other to encourage
a higher or lower to exit

i would not recomend tweaking the opsite way to gain height
as this is bad practice
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:nail placement 17 Aug 2006 00:24 #12

  • calshoer
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Iwas really worried about teaching nailing last year ,but my students caught on fast. What I told them was angle the nail parallel the angle of the wall. (so it is more straight in the quarters more angled in at the toe nails)
Aim where they wanted it to come out. Two or three easy taps to start it a third in,then a sharp smack to begin to turn it.
By golly I was surprized, they all pretty much got it by about the second shoeing . (plus on the dead feet they shod the weekend before live horses )
I was a really proud mama. Patty
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:nail placement 17 Aug 2006 02:24 #13

  • Bill Adams
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The first horse I shod after I posted my sage advice above, got quicked.
As they say at a BWFA certifacitation, it didn't bleed all that much.
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:nail placement 17 Aug 2006 02:42 #14

  • Derin Foor
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Redd Mcintyre wrote:
Thanks for the tips.
Dave I have been shown to start the nails in the wall. You said in your post to start them in/on the white line. I have shaped shoes for my mentor but have used the perimeter wall as a guide with a quick look at the bottom, maybe this is why he is finishing the shaping with a couple of hits on the stall anvil. So if I an get the nail holes to follow the white line better I should be able to get higher nails. I guess sometimes I get hammer shy worrying about quicken a foot.
thanks for your advice
redd mcintyre

Redd,

You are fairly close to me. If you want to ride along someday, you are more than welcome. I shape and fit everything hot and nail 'em up as high as practical.

....my stall jack is still in a box at some warehouse somewhere... and it will be there for a loooooong time :p

give me a shout sometime

Derin
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RE:nail placement 17 Aug 2006 02:56 #15

Hey Derin.
Thanks for the offer That means alot. Tuesdays is my day off from the job that is funding my farrier start and is the day that I try to book full . I would really like to do that. Maybe sometime in Sept If I could.
Thanks,
Redd
Redd McIntyre
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