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TOPIC: Cuff Style Glue ons?

Cuff Style Glue ons? 27 Jul 2006 15:55 #1

  • SlowShoe
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We all know the Sigafoos shoe is probably the best glue on shoe you can get. The problem is the $75 dollar price tag (our cost). Its a hard sell to a lot of clients. Thats the price I charge for a pair of front shoes installed =]

So figure your gogin to want to get your shoeing price (or close) on top of that. So now they are paying 150 for front shoes. I understand there are plenty of cleints who have no problem paying for these. But there are a few that this is bit much for. For example I have a teenage girl down the road who pays her own horse bills. She is not well off, and just gets by. The vet and I have agreed that glue ons for the hind feet are needed. I have tried regular glue on shoes with varrying sucess. This horse does low level eventing, so a good glue job is needed.


Anyway has anyone tried to make a cuff shoe, by rivetting (maybe fibreglass cloth used for body work), or somehow otherwise attaching a cuff to a shoe? If so how were your results?

Thanks,
Josh
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 27 Jul 2006 16:43 #2

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It is really difficult to rivet cloth in a manner that won't pull off of the shoe. The Dalric cuff would be one option, although by the time you purcahse those and attach the current shoe, you might be better off just using a Sigafoos shoe. Another "half-way" option is to glue a piece of fabric to the hoof on the sides where the nails will be. After the glue/fabric sets, you can nail through this "reinforced" wall with a standard shoe and nails. I would use something more sturdy than a fiberglass cloth, definitely a braided material (the orientation of the material is at a 45 degree angle to the horn tubules), and preferably something durable- spectra cloth, vectran, or a carbon fiber kevlar braid (trade name "cobra sox").
When in doubt, more glue!
P
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 27 Jul 2006 19:35 #3

I love the idea of glueing shoes! But never really got proficient at it. Pat you mention glue, but that's one of my points. What glue? Acrylic based, polyurethane?

I asked this Chilton guy from Vettec once why (apparently) everybody doing a lot of glue-ons prefers acrylic to Vettec's polyurethane stuff. He never got around to answering that one. Probably because I was complaining about the costs, or should I say the extravagant margin those guys are making while we do the selling and applying of the stuff. Or maybe its simply because acrylics are better?

Could you fill me in a bit more on this? Should I use Equilox as a glue when I glue on Sigafoos? Something else? Why?


Ronald Aalders
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 27 Jul 2006 21:03 #4

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Both acrylic and urethane adhesives work well, it just depends what you are using them for. When using the Sigafoos shoes, it is important to remember that you are bonding to more than the hoof- you are bonding to the fabric as well. It is my understanding that the urethane adhesives do not bond well to the fabrics. For this reason I also use acrylics (Equilox, Equi-bond, etc.)for the type of repair outlined earlier.
I have been working with a company using an ultraviolet light to cure a thin covering of acrylic on the foot. So far I would equate it to a thick coating of hoof sealant, not really a hoof repair, but useful in keeping little defects fromturning into larger cracks.
P
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 28 Jul 2006 00:54 #5

  • Derin Foor
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SlowShoe wrote:
We all know the Sigafoos shoe is probably the best glue on shoe you can get. The problem is the $75 dollar price tag (our cost). Its a hard sell to a lot of clients. Thats the price I charge for a pair of front shoes installed =]

So figure your gogin to want to get your shoeing price (or close) on top of that.

I sure hope you aren't insinuating that you are willing to lower your shoeing fee because the material cost is so high :confused:
So now they are paying 150 for front shoes. I understand there are plenty of cleints who have no problem paying for these. But there are a few that this is bit much for.

horse ownership is indeed expensive, especially when we're dealing with bad footed horses... that shouldn't be an incentive to undercut ourselves.. after all, we have hobbies to maintain as well, right Bill ? (HD) :D
For example I have a teenage girl down the road who pays her own horse bills. She is not well off, and just gets by. The vet and I have agreed that glue ons for the hind feet are needed. I have tried regular glue on shoes with varrying sucess. This horse does low level eventing, so a good glue job is needed.

what about taking him out of work for a while until his feet improve?.... sometimes there are options that the owners don't like, but that will help in the long run

Derin
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 28 Jul 2006 02:59 #6

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I sure hope you aren't insinuating that you are willing to lower your shoeing fee because the material cost is so high.

That wasnt my point. My point is that some folks simply cant afford what their horses need.
horse ownership is indeed expensive, especially when we're dealing with bad footed horses... that shouldn't be an incentive to undercut ourselves.. after all, we have hobbies to maintain as well

Your right it's not an incentive to undercut ourselfs. I like to think we make enough money to help someone out once in while. Makeing a habbit of it will however put you in the poor house.

However thats not even the case here. Im simply looking for a way to achive similar resualts without such a cost. Maybe I will do some experimenting on the familly horses.


Anyone have suggestions on a good high strength cloth to use?

Thanks,
Josh
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 28 Jul 2006 03:39 #7

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SlowShoe]That wasnt my point. My point is that some folks simply cant afford what their horses need. [/quote]

in which case they should find a less expensive hobby... I'm really not trying to be argumentative, just pragmatic



Your right it's not an incentive to undercut ourselfs. I like to think we make enough money to help someone out once in while. Makeing a habbit of it will however put you in the poor house.

well said.......... we all do some 'charity' work from time to time
However thats not even the case here. Im simply looking for a way to achive similar resualts without such a cost. Maybe I will do some experimenting on the familly horses.

I refer to my horses as the 4 legged experiments wrote:
Anyone have suggestions on a good high strength cloth to use?

Thanks,
Josh

what about some type of screening, metal or plastic, that wouldn't deteriorate in the mud, urine, etc and would allow the glue to penetrate it?

Derin
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 28 Jul 2006 05:43 #8

  • Bill Adams
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SlowShoe wrote:
The problem is the $75 dollar price tag (our cost). Its a hard sell to a lot of clients.
But there are a few that this is bit much for. For example I have a teenage girl down the road who pays her own horse bills. She is not well off, and just gets by. The vet and I have agreed that glue ons for the hind feet are needed. I have tried regular glue on shoes with varrying sucess. This horse does low level eventing, so a good glue job is needed.
Josh


Josh,
So I was talking to my friend the yacht mechainic, and he has the same problem.
Many of his yacht owner clients don't want to do the full service on their engines before leaving for a few weeks of crusing the Caribian. Many of the clients are faced with the choice of proper care of the yacht or no caviare.
Of course I told him that his responsibility is to do what ever it takes to get these people on the water, even if it means paying for parts out of his familys income. What are the yacht owners suposed to do if they can't afford to keep up their boat, sell it or something?
Bill

Derin,
Yah, I get lots of discounts at the Harley dealer. I have learned that HD stands for "Hundred Dollars" and multibles thereof.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 28 Jul 2006 10:17 #9

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Many of the horses which come in to me for glue on shoes are on some type of hoof supplement. How much do you think that costs per month, about $75? I have no problem with biotin supplements, however I have yet to see any research showing it can increase either the quality of hoof or rate of growth. I would rather put the same amount of money into the shoes (not in my pocket, mind you).
P
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 28 Jul 2006 20:30 #10

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I saw at Breeders Supply today a cuff that might work it is made by Grand Circut and seems to be sort of a rim pad attached to a fiberglass cuff. I also have seen a glue shoe by Mustad. It has a bunch of tabs that go around the wall that I assume you glue to the hoof. Both products were covered by a half inch of dust so you may be able to get a deal.
The fiberglass thing was on the wall next to Becky's computer;
The Mustad shoes were on top of the shelves where the Kerkart race plates are.
Breeders Supply: 859-254-7791.
E Decker CF
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 28 Jul 2006 20:50 #11

I have tried Vettecs method of glueing aluminum shoes with clips. It works pretty good have had them stay on for 4 to 6 weeks. Adding a couple of nails where you can helps. Hind shoes can be a problem because of the twisting motion, seen sigafoos shoes come off hind feet within a few days.

Vettec has the instructions on there web site. Most important thing is clean and dry. Dry being the most important. A tube of vettecs stuff is about 27.00, a buck a tip, aluminum eventers with clips 9.00 a pair.

Hot fitting and hoof supplement has helped a lot of horses I have done. Maybe there is no scientific proof on hoof suplements, but sure have seen bad feet become pretty good after they have been on it and go right back to **** after there off it. That is enough science for me. Also seen horses never get good feet no matter what supplement they are on, but most do, at least the ones I have seen anyways.

It also helps to keep these week feet out of ****.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 28 Jul 2006 22:19 #12

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Where I live the average price for 4 shoes is $75. I charge $120. for gluing shoes I use Equibond (acrylic). My base price is $80 for a pair of front shoes. Add to that $15 for aluminum shoes (aluminum glues better than steel). Then add $75 per hoof for glue-on shoes.

Sometimes I just repair the hoof and then nail on the shoe. As long as I can get the nails above the repair so that I am clinching in sound horn, this works very well for me. I prefer the acrylic to the urethane because it will cure in a very thin layer as long as you cover it while it is curing. You can use duct tape to cover the acrylic - about 6 minutes in this weather. You should always cover an acrylic repair with duct tape or saran wrap while it is curing. The surface will not cure properly if you don't. Acrylic (cyanacrylates or polyesters or vinylesters) are "air inhibited" chemistry. The presence of oxygen on the surface inhibits the catalyst from promoting polymerization.

The urethane (Vettek) needs to be at least 1/8" thick in order to achieve a good bond. Also if you happen to move the shoe whilst the adhesive is curing, you loose the bond.

Making your own cuff is going to be more difficult and time consuming than purchasing a ready-made cuff. The cuff material is usually Kevlar or some other “aramid” fiber.

You can't use urethane to attach a cuff (well, you can try, but it won’t work.) Acrylic or epoxy will soak into the fiber and still cure. The urethane will not soak into the fiber and if you force it into the fiber, the material will not have enough mass to achieve a good exothermic cure.

The Mustad glue shoes with the clear plastic tabs use a “superglue” cyanacrylate. The problem with these shoes is that you need to have a perfect match between surfaces in order for the tabs to stick. ANY gaps between the tabs and the hoof and the glue won’t bond. . . . it’s super glue, so you’ll likely glue your hands (gloves) to the hoof along with the shoe!

Above all other things you MUST start with a dry foot. The best way to dry the foot is with a heat gun. A hair dryer is OK, but you want to get the horn up to at least 140deg.F in order to drive off any moisture in the outer layer of horn cells. If you don’t use heat to drive off the moisture from the hoof you are wasting your time with any kind of adhesive.

One of the best tutorials I’ve seen is here:

Anvil Magazine Glue on shoes.

If you get "stuck" give me a call: 302-492-0202

I used to glue boats together for a living. :)
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 22 Aug 2006 02:40 #13

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I,d like to jump in on this discussion on the cuff glue on. First of all you can easily glue on the Mustad Easy Glu with Vettec Adhere. instead of the super glue. Generously apply the Adhere to the shoe after shaping and preparing the hoof properly. Put the shoe in place and apply more Adhere around and under the tabs.Take shrink wrap and wrap around the tabs and under the shoe. That's it.
You can also make your own cuff with several layers of the shredded fiber glass mat. You have to do some creative cutting to get the right shape and it is helpful to have a helper when applying the adhesive. You can use either polyureathane or acrylic. Then nail the shoe to it after it sets up.
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RE:Cuff Style Glue ons? 22 Aug 2006 02:57 #14

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Bill Adams wrote:
Josh,
So I was talking to my friend the yacht mechainic, and he has the same problem.
Many of his yacht owner clients don't want to do the full service on their engines before leaving for a few weeks of crusing the Caribian. Many of the clients are faced with the choice of proper care of the yacht or no caviare.
Of course I told him that his responsibility is to do what ever it takes to get these people on the water, even if it means paying for parts out of his familys income. What are the yacht owners suposed to do if they can't afford to keep up their boat, sell it or something?
Bill

Derin,
Yah, I get lots of discounts at the Harley dealer. I have learned that HD stands for "Hundred Dollars" and multibles thereof.

Like I tell my customers; Horses cost 2 things, TIME and MONEY. If you don't got the time or don't got the money, then don't have the horse.

As far as glue ons, have only used foal glue ons. Have made shoes out of Vettec a couple times. This lasted pretty good until the horn grew down. Only thing the toe wears out, so once in a while had to apply a little bit more on the toe.

Mikel
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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