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TOPIC: Welding clips

Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 01:08 #1

  • Skinfaxi
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I was reading Richard Klimesh's article on applying pre-cut clips with a wire-feed welder. The link is:

http://www.horsekeeping.com/hoof_care_and_lameness/welding_clips.htm

I was wondering how many of you do this, and what you think of it. Particularly regarding the applications described by Mr. Klimesh.
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 01:13 #2

A technology solution to a technique problem.
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 01:19 #3

  • Skinfaxi
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That is possible Roy, lol.

I was wondering at the validitiy of the claim that (paraphrasing) clips are difficult/impractical to pull to proper length, esspecially on padded packages. :D
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 01:33 #4

  • Rick Burten
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When I am shoeing gaited horses that will be wearing a big package, Iadd a toe clip in front and quarter clips behind.

Other than that, I either forge clips or use pre-clipped shoes. I don't, very often, experience the problems Klimesh describes. If I am going to be adding pads to the shoeing package, then I'll pull up a bit more material to make a taller clip. If the shoe is pre-clipped, its no problem to forge the clip(s) taller.

And, particularly on gaited horseshoes, it is possible and sometimes practical(like if the barn doesn't have electricity or the power fades by the time it gets to your rig) to jump weld the taller clip to the shoe.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 03:20 #5

Skinfaxi wrote:
I was wondering at the validitiy of the claim that (paraphrasing) clips are difficult/impractical to pull to proper length, esspecially on padded packages. :D

Sarah,

In the real world of everyday horseshoeing I think the chances of hauling out a welding machine and trying to find a twenty amp recepticle in some of the s...holes I work in is about slim to nil.

Better sharpen your forge welding skills unless you have your own shop for customers to trailer in to you.

Phantom :)
"The work will teach you how to do it"
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 03:41 #6

  • Skinfaxi
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Oh, No I wasn't considering it for myself. I just wanted to see what others thought of it. Like you said, fat chance having what you need to do it at every stop. Plus lugging the thing around would be a pain. I like how Roy put it. I totally feel that a farrier should be ABLE to work effectively and variably with his/her forge under any reasonable(and sometimes unreasonable) conditions. That is part of the point isn't it? I do see it's potential in pathologies though, or correct me...
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 09:34 #7

  • Mike Ferrara
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I don't know what makes the author of the article think that there's anything new about welding clips on. I certainly don't know what makes him theink that he developed the method. LOL

As Rick points out, the large clips needed for tall pad packages like those used on saddlebreds, for instance, have always been welded on. Traditionally they would be forge welded but these days most farriers use an electric welder. I do carry a 110 V arc welder in the truck but I usually don't make these shoes on site. I generally make and clip them in my shop where I have a 230 Volt 225 amp Hobart arc welder which is nicer to weld with than the little 110 that I carry in the truck.
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 18:12 #8

  • Skinfaxi
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I thought that the was no way that arc welding on clips was new, regardless of how the article sounded(lol) Since I like to ask purely academic questions as my way of teaching my self I figured this would be a good one.

One thing though, couldn't you naturally pull a bigger clip (in a handmade anyway) by putting more steel at the toe? Or is it just too much trouble that way?
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 18:20 #9

  • George Geist
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Yes Sarah,
With technique and some experience you can make clips any size you want them.

For those who prefer to weld them on it's probably best to use a smaller welder that runs on 110v so it can be plugged into an ordinary wall outlet. These type of welders are obviously limited in their capabilities, but for welding on clips they are satisfactory.

For specialty work such as long footed show horses or drafts this might be a good idea. I think for most ordinary shoeing, drawing clips the traditional way is probably much faster, easier, and aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
George
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 19:22 #10

  • Mike Ferrara
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Skinfaxi wrote:
One thing though, couldn't you naturally pull a bigger clip (in a handmade anyway) by putting more steel at the toe? Or is it just too much trouble that way?

There's always a way. As I said, the traditional way is to forge weld it on if you need a big clip. By big, I mean up to 2 1/2 inches tall or so. I use a lot of 2 inchers on front shoes. Another way that comes to mind is, as you say, to put more stock in the clip area from the start by either starting bigger and forging down (easier) or by upsetting (harder). The downside is the amount of forging. The shoes that I use big clips on are made from pretty heavy stock to start with. Forging heavy stock by hand without a striker is no fun so most of us buy turned blanks and the time to forge down or bump up would be before the shoe is turned.

Now that you all got me thinking about it, I'll probably forge weld a few on the next time I make up a batch of shoes to see how I like it. I do quit a bit of forge welding but I have never forge welded clips on...I've always had an arc welder :D
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 19:50 #11

  • smitty88
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Seen Grant MOON GIVE A DEMO
ON FORGE WELDING CLIPS

IT WAS GOOD TO WATCH
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Welding clips 18 Feb 2006 20:12 #12

  • Mike Ferrara
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George Geist wrote:
Yes Sarah,
With technique and some experience you can make clips any size you want them.

For those who prefer to weld them on it's probably best to use a smaller welder that runs on 110v so it can be plugged into an ordinary wall outlet. These type of welders are obviously limited in their capabilities, but for welding on clips they are satisfactory.

the only 110 welder that I've ever used is the one I own and it OLD. It provides enough current but the arc is nowhere near as smooth as what I get from my big welder. A friend of mine has a newer 110v welder and he claims that it works better for him if he preheats the work. As I said, I try to get as much of this kind of stuff done in the shop rather than out on the job and in the shop the welder is plugged in and ready to go all the time.

For specialty work such as long footed show horses or drafts this might be a good idea. I think for most ordinary shoeing, drawing clips the traditional way is probably much faster, easier, and aesthetically pleasing to the eye.
George

I don't know which is faster. In the time it takes a shoe to heat, I could arc weld several clips on. After arc welding I clean up the weld with a grinder so it's probably close to a wash time wise. As far as looks...a welded on clip looks good. The weld isn't visable after dressing and there's no stock missing from the toe or branch of the shoe.

For regular sized clips, I heat the shoe in the forge and draw a clip with a hammer like every one else and I don't see much reason to do it any differently. I'd still rather do as much of my forge work ahead of time in the shop as possible though. I just don't always get to work near the truck and any extra trips back and forth (especially if it's to haul heavy stuff) is a real time and energy waster.
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RE:Welding clips 19 Feb 2006 00:31 #13

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Mike Ferrara in gray

I don't know what makes the author of the article think that there's anything new about welding clips on. I certainly don't know what makes him theink that he developed the method. LOL


Vanity arising from welding clips? Surely not. :)

As Rick points out, the large clips needed for tall pad packages like those used on saddlebreds, for instance, have always been welded on. Traditionally they would be forge welded but these days most farriers use an electric welder.

I guess I'm old fashioned. When a horse needs a bigger clip than I can pull with a ball pein or bob punch, I use an oxygen/acetylene torch to get it done, not a forge. Besides, while jump welding clips in a gasser is possible, but not much fun. (First, take a slitting chisel...) In terms of portable outfits, with the exception of a scratch start TIG setup, IME, O/A is a much more versatile joinery tool than is any kind of portable stick or wire welder.

I do carry a 110 V arc welder in the truck but I usually don't make these shoes on site. I generally make and clip them in my shop where I have a 230 Volt 225 amp Hobart arc welder which is nicer to weld with than the little 110 that I carry in the truck.

Being a lazy sort, if I have to weld on clips in the shop, I TIG weld 'em. No clean up.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Welding clips 19 Feb 2006 01:11 #14

  • Mike Ferrara
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Good points Tom. While I do some welding, I can't make any claims to being a welder. I've never used a tig and I've done a very little torch welding.

I need to get another O/A torch (I sold mine and haven't replaced it yet) and a tig is always a possibility for the shop so maybe I can make some improvements in this area. No clean up with a TIG? Now to figure out how many grinder disks it'll take to pay one off so my wife will give me the money :D
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RE:Welding clips 19 Feb 2006 06:21 #15

I would like to ask how many of you use a clip starter or complete the clip with a hammer? I have tried to draw some and the first sets were, well lets say i have alot of junk steel. i guess i will make a few hoof picks after viewing another post! My master gave me a clip starter to practice on. he has his clips drawn in a matter of a couple minutes. Do Ya'll draw alot or purchase preclipped shoes?
Redd McIntyre
Redd McIntyre
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