How do you like that, logic....

Donald,

to add to the already great advise on welding, hit the thinnest part of the scarf first and work your way back into the thicker part.. the thinnest part will cool the fastest and needs to be welded first

this is what has worked for me

Derin

Bill,

I buy the liner by the sheet and shape it myself.

Kevin

Donald Ruff wrote:
Don, if you're refering to my use of the term "fagot weld", it's a common name for welding 2 or more pieces of stock that are stacked as appsosed to other types of welds like lap, jump, forked, split... ect. Other names that are sometimes used for it are "lump weld" or "pile weld". I don't know where the name came from but I suppose that these days it's safer to call it a lump or pile weld. If you scarf the ends like smitty does I suppose it's sort of a cross between a fagot weld and a lap weld maybe? I don't know if scarfing the ends works better or not (I don't make that many bar shoes) but I just taper the ends slightly, overlap them and weld it that way. It seems to work ok.

When I practice welds like that I just take old shoes or any other odds and ends I have laying around. I fold a piece over on itself or bend it around untill the ends meet and weld it up. Some smiths recommend doing at least one weld every time you have a fire going to stay sharp. Using s**** makes it a little easier, faster and gives you a way to test your welds. To test the weld. put it in a vice and twist or bend (at a red heat or even cold) and see if it holds up. If it was really welded it should stay that way through quit a bit of abuse. You probably wouldn't want to do that with a nice shoe after you get done forging it. IMO, you should test your practice welds because there are welds and then there are "glue jobs" that can almost look like welds.

cowboy_bc wrote:
I'm no expert on building gas forges...in fact, I've never done it...but there's a lot of info out there about forge design including volume and shape as it relates to burner capacity and placement. Look around on anvilfire.com, dfoggknives.com, Ron Reils site or one of the other bladesmith sites. I do know that in order to insure even heats that some guys design their forges so that the burners don't directly hit the work at all. I think that some use round forges and situate the burners so that the heat circulates. Again, it's just stuff that I read but if you're going to build a nice forge that the envy of everyone, you might want to read it too. By using charcoal, I avoid having to to worry about all that. LOL

mike,
no worries it takes allot more than being accused of forging faggot welds to throw me off. good point about putting the weld through some punishment afterward to see if it wasa ture weld. i'll keep that in mind.

thanks
Don

Mike Ferrara wrote:

what tells me mike is when i can get to reset the bar shoes
2 or 3 times if you can do this your weld is not to bad

we use to think years ago you need the iron as hot
as you can get it infact in the coke fire we wer

told not to bring it out until you see the starlights
this is not the case

a true heat is most inportant and wer you hit it
its not how hard you hit it its wer you hit it

then it depends how clean you want the scarfs
your own preference

i like to see a nice strong bar
wouuld you agree mike

smitty88 wrote:
If I'm correctly understanding your point...yes I agree. If it's sparking, it's burning. Low carbon steel will weld at that temp but I don't think it needs to be that hot and your liable to end up with an ugly shoe after burning it anyway.

You know what they say? Cleanliness is next to godliness. Clean joints mean less scale that needs to be melted, therefor less flux (or even none) needed and an easier to make weld. A neutral or reducing flame also helps avoid the scale in the first place. A good even (all the way through) heat and hitting it in the right place while it's still at welding temp is what gets it welded. I haven't had the chance to work with any wrought iron but most low carbon shoe stock...1018, A36 or whatever doesn't need to be sparking as far as I'm concerned.

spot on mike