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TOPIC: Pressure from toe of shoe ?

Pressure from toe of shoe ? 22 May 2012 12:38 #1

  • vthorseshoe
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When I was learning and for every year since I have seen farriers teach to finish your trim by cleaning out the area where the toe of the shoe sets to relieve pressure....
Am I wrong or did I, was I taught what others were taught ?

Then the swing to set shoe's back "for ease of break over" became the hot thing on the block.

When Gene came out with the "Natural Balance shoe if you look underneath it has that recess built in the shoe so his setting the shoe back still conformed to what we were taught about relieveing pressure.
Also his shoe is fairly wide at the toe and covers a fair amount of area dicipating any pressure to other area's along with the toe.

I just saw a picture of a shoe that was set back and the toe of the steel shoe was ground down half the width of the sides or heels in width.
since it is behind the white line can this not cause stress/pain/pressure on this animal in the long run ?

It is known that I am not an advocate for setting shoes back. (if you want to ease break over then why not bevel or rocker the shoe or use a half round . I like a clean perimeter fit and guess I am too old to change.

What are your thoughts ? and opinions ?

My 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 22 May 2012 13:14 #2

  • seminolewind
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 22 May 2012 13:49 #3

  • Eric Russell
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Bruce, can you define what you mean by setting a shoe back?

If I have a nondistorted foot I will perimeter fit it. If that same foot migrated forward but I fit my shoe in the same position as the nondistorted foot, I wouldn't consider my shoe set back. If I followed the migration, with my shoe fit, I would consider that a toe extension. If I felt the horse needed a toe extension I would have added a toe extension to the nondistorted foot.

From the nondistorted fit I can then decide if I need to roll/rocker or set back the shoe.

I find many people start to contradict themselves to suite their needs. Such as you suggesting a half round is fine but grinding the edges could add pressure. ;)
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 22 May 2012 16:42 #4

  • MPLdyCop
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vthorseshoe wrote:

I just saw a picture of a shoe that was set back and the toe of the steel shoe was ground down half the width of the sides or heels in width.
since it is behind the white line can this not cause stress/pain/pressure on this animal in the long run ?

It is known that I am not an advocate for setting shoes back. (if you want to ease break over then why not bevel or rocker the shoe or use a half round . I like a clean perimeter fit and guess I am too old to change.

What are your thoughts ? and opinions ?

My 2 cents worth ;)

LOL, it is a trick of the eye in the photo you saw. The shoe is seated out, and rolled at the toe. Not ground in half. Look at the before and after. The toe is stretched forward taking the heels with it, and the heels are collapsing inward. Not a pretty foot. Shoe is still not perimeter fit, but it's not "set back" that far. It's the roll decieving your eye.
Kim Turner

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Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 22 May 2012 23:03 #5

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can you post the pic?
Rachael :)
CF

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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 22 May 2012 23:55 #6

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This is the foot in question.
uploadfromtaptalk1337730859218.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1337730873216.jpg
uploadfromtaptalk1337730900587.jpg


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2
Kim Turner

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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 22 May 2012 23:57 #7

  • Jack Evers
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I believe it's everyday shoeing, post 8979 and appeared to me to be a reset of a shoe badly worn at the toe and suggesting breakover did need some help.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 23 May 2012 00:04 #8

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Jack Evers wrote:
I believe it's everyday shoeing, post 8979 and appeared to me to be a reset of a shoe badly worn at the toe and suggesting breakover did need some help.

He did wear the toe a bit, but I'd not say badly worn. The first picture was the first setting, and the second the reset showing the difference in dressing the wall.
Kim Turner

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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 23 May 2012 02:52 #9

  • vthorseshoe
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Ok from these pictures I can see you didn't grind the toe to half the size of the actual width but did bevel the toe of the shoe.

Eric, I don't contradict myself or I am not aware of it anyway.

I can pick up 70% out of 100 shoeing jobs here and see the shoe has been set back under the foot. 1/4 of an inch or more sometimes leaving the toe of the foot hanging over the shoe all in the name of break over.

If the foot has distorted or migrated forward then back the toe up, or rocker the toe and continue to back it up gradually (the foot that is).
I will conceed that perhaps there are a few times when setting the shoe under the foot leaving the toe of the hoof hanging over the toe of the shoe, may have a purpose, but come on guy, it has become common place for a LOT of the everyday shoeing jobs.
The shoe is an extension of the foot. That doesn't mean a toe length extention but it is like adding a shoeing package on. The foot stays at the proper angle but how carries 3/8th or 1/2 " (ME and Drafts) on its hoof. The shoe should fit the foot and that means fit..... :ohmy:
There are so many horses now with a bull nose looking wall because some farriers set the shoe under the foot then rasp the wall away and end up rounding it as the rasp finishes at the toe. NOW that is what I call distortion...
Personally I LIKE a half round shoe and feel it can be used in MANY instances. It is non invasive and non resistant and allows the animal to break over where ever his leg /hoof wants to with out causing stress.
If you want traction the buy a swedge half round or crease it yourself. You can add any kind of device you want to it or turn any kind of a heel you want etc. It is a great all around shoe hardly ever used by folks other than the track farriers.
I can remember saddlebreds with a half round half swedge shoe made with a nice caulk on the rear.
Anyway friend it is my likes and dislikes and folks will do things that work for them or what they are used to using.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
Last Edit: 23 May 2012 02:56 by vthorseshoe.
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 23 May 2012 03:24 #10

  • Gary Hill
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Bruce, you really know how to start a discussion. :) I find that some new clients I take on, that when I trim the heels alot of times they have been left too long IMO. The former hoofcare providers have heard the same thing I hear from the clients, "Leave the heels and stand them up!" Well when I start packing my tools and the client asks what am I doing and I tell them that apparently they dont need me because they know what they want, so they need to do them themselves..!! Then I explain that I trim to the widest part of the untrimmed frog and that keeping the HPA is most important to me, there will usually be some distortion to the toe that might need the shoe set back to where IF I had an x-ray would be pretty close to the mapping process we all are aware of? But then just today I rockered the toes on three horses and one of them it was the hinds that I rockered because the horse has some stifle issues. As time goes by I am ususally able to pull the toe back to more of a full blown AFA Traditional permetier fit.. :evil: OK now realility slaps me and on alot of performance horses that I shoe the toe is in the way of them performing to there best..again IMO..but if they win Canchases, Cuttings, Sortings, Pennings and Ropings and my people are happy I am good, I find that these horses grow a nice frog that engages the ground and the heels are not contracted as I see in other disciplines? ON the other hand, I shoe alot of flatshod and liteshod TWH's and I leave alot of toe on the fronts of them, unless they are trotty then I rocker the fronts atad..I feel that conformation now days has been thrown out the window because everyone wants to breed to the hot Stallion in whatever discipline they like to play in? Doesnt matter what their mare is, they just either go for color or what the Stallion has done..No biggie, but if they did alittle more homework they might quit breeding the foot off of their horses..OK I will pop a new batch of corn and wait for the response to your topic? :pc: Quick edit because I forgot to address your question..yes I do relieve sole pressure in the toe and in the sole surface of the shoe..when I hot fit a rocker I do the same to the sole after the burn..
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
Last Edit: 23 May 2012 03:30 by Gary Hill. Reason: spelling
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 24 May 2012 03:07 #11

  • Alicia Thompson
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Eric Russell wrote:
Bruce, can you define what you mean by setting a shoe back?

If I have a nondistorted foot I will perimeter fit it. If that same foot migrated forward but I fit my shoe in the same position as the nondistorted foot, I wouldn't consider my shoe set back. If I followed the migration, with my shoe fit, I would consider that a toe extension. If I felt the horse needed a toe extension I would have added a toe extension to the nondistorted foot.

From the nondistorted fit I can then decide if I need to roll/rocker or set back the shoe.

I find many people start to contradict themselves to suite their needs. Such as you suggesting a half round is fine but grinding the edges could add pressure. ;)
wooo was it as good for you as it was for me? ;D :woohoo:
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Last Edit: 24 May 2012 03:07 by Alicia Thompson.
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 24 May 2012 23:42 #12

  • Eric Russell
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vthorseshoe wrote:
If the foot has distorted or migrated forward then back the toe up, or rocker the toe and continue to back it up gradually (the foot that is).

If you don't think a toe extension is a problem why back the foot up at all?

I will conceed that perhaps there are a few times when setting the shoe under the foot leaving the toe of the hoof hanging over the toe of the shoe, may have a purpose, but come on guy, it has become common place for a LOT of the everyday shoeing jobs.

You're trying to make a case for dressing the foot and fitting a shoe to that dressed foot. The amount of people who do things a certain way has nothing to do with it.
The shoe should fit the foot and that means fit..... :ohmy:

Is that the nondistorted foot or (most likely) the man made distorted foot?
There are so many horses now with a bull nose looking wall because some farriers set the shoe under the foot then rasp the wall away and end up rounding it as the rasp finishes at the toe. NOW that is what I call distortion...

Again, you're getting off the subject. People dubbing toes has nothing to do with your theory of shoe placement.
Personally I LIKE a half round shoe and feel it can be used in MANY instances. It is non invasive and non resistant and allows the animal to break over where ever his leg /hoof wants to with out causing stress.

That depends. If you couldn't file away all of the distortion the half round could still act as a toe extension.

BTW, you made another contradiction when you mentioned stress. ;)


Anyway friend it is my likes and dislikes and folks will do things that work for them or what they are used to using.

One thing we all seem to do from time to time is disregard information that doesn't suite our theories. If you think half rounds reduce stress then you obviously think a longer lever can increase stress. Why then would you set a shoe forward of the nondistorted hoof capsule?

I do agree there's a lot of people setting shoes back for no reason and have no idea why they are doing it.
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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 25 May 2012 00:32 #13

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Eric,

Do you think this foot is over dressed? I ask because of the statement, "Man made distorted foot".

I really don't know where the line is. I stopped at the color change, but sought a straight line from the coronary band. It certainly looks better than the first setting, but how do you determine what is too much.
Kim Turner

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Re: Pressure from toe of shoe ? 25 May 2012 03:33 #14

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Kim for the looks of the hoof in your photo, it looks to be a pretty well balanced hoof. The widest part is about in the middle and your grindersmithing provides an ease of breakover..your all good in my book with this...but who am I but another opinion... :woohoo: :pc:
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