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TOPIC: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes?

Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 03:31 #31

  • Travis Morgan
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For pretty much all the reasons above, I'd not pull a shoe with the clinches intact. Prying against the part of the foot we want to keep is just a bad idea.
Copenhagen. You can see it in my smile!
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 04:17 #32

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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Jack Evers wrote:
Sorry you feel that way guys. Don't know about your word wrenching, Red. You've never seen me pull a shoe, but I do it the same way whether I cut clinches or not. Now I'm 74 years old and not real big so it can't be nearly as hard as you make it out to be. At any rate, I try to make sure my clenches are the weak part of the job. If a horse hangs a shoe, he is strong enough to pull it off and I'd like the nails to pull out, not rip hoof.

Eric stated my thoughts well.


Like Jack, I want the shoe to come off clean if the horse steps on the heel or catches it in the fence. I like small clinches set in the wall. I don't gouge, just run the smooth side of the rasp under them without digging in and clinch them. The lost shoes I've had over the last couple years have almost all come off clean without a bunch of hoof wall coming off to. Has made the cost of buying repair material go down a bunch.

Another guy came to work with me for a couple days and he mentioned that it was hard to even cut my clinches cause there was nothing to catch with his clinch cutter. He said it's easier to just pull the shoes without cutting them and remarked how he was surprised that no hoof wall came off.

I do have one horse on the books that you have to cut the clinches. Previous shoer liked large long clinches and just tried to pull the shoes once and tore off big chunks of foot. Since then if you don't cut the clinches and just try to pull the shoes he will pull back and break a lead rope.

Just do what the horse needs I guess and go on to the next one.
Ben Sturman
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Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 04:20 #33

  • MPLdyCop
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Jack Evers wrote:
At any rate, I try to make sure my clenches are the weak part of the job. If a horse hangs a shoe, he is strong enough to pull it off and I'd like the nails to pull out, not rip hoof.

Now that I have been taught as well, and shown the aftermath of too strong a clench. Hence why I was worried about the clenches that sunk all the way into the wall and I barely touched them with the rasp. I don't want them to hold in a shoe hung situation and take wall.
Kim Turner

www.totalhorsecare.net



Dr. House "You were right, Counts for nothing if you can't defend it."
Last Edit: 20 May 2012 04:27 by MPLdyCop.
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 06:01 #34

  • Christos Axis
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Hmmm...I have not seen a single clinch being pulled straight when the shoe is removed with the clinches on. Whether pulled by the horse or the farrier, all the nails have that little hook on their end bent at 90 degrees.

My understanding is that this little hook opens the hole twice as wide when it goes back through the hoof, weakening the wall and undermining the very area we want to keep strong in order to hold our future nails well.

We speak so often of using the smaller nail possible and a tidy square clinch in order not to damage the wall too much, so I do not understand why someone would purposely double the damage to the wall if he can avoid it by simply cutting the clinches before removing the shoe.
Christos Axis
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 09:44 #35

  • smitty88
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Christos Axis wrote:
Hmmm...I have not seen a single clinch being pulled straight when the shoe is removed with the clinches on. Whether pulled by the horse or the farrier, all the nails have that little hook on their end bent at 90 degrees.

My understanding is that this little hook opens the hole twice as wide when it goes back through the hoof, weakening the wall and undermining the very area we want to keep strong in order to hold our future nails well.

We speak so often of using the smaller nail possible and a tidy square clinch in order not to damage the wall too much, so I do not understand why someone would purposely double the damage to the wall if he can avoid it by simply cutting the clinches before removing the shoe.

Glad to see some one has sence
Smitty88
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 11:37 #36

  • Eric Russell
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Christos Axis wrote:

My understanding is that this little hook opens the hole twice as wide when it goes back through the hoof, weakening the wall and undermining the very area we want to keep strong in order to hold our future nails well.

Are you suggesting that when a horse pulls a shoe you use twice the size nail when you nail it back on?
We speak so often of using the smaller nail possible and a tidy square clinch in order not to damage the wall too much, so I do not understand why someone would purposely double the damage to the wall if he can avoid it by simply cutting the clinches before removing the shoe.

I like to use the biggest nail possible myself.
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 12:21 #37

  • Christos Axis
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Eric Russell wrote:
Are you suggesting that when a horse pulls a shoe you use twice the size nail when you nail it back on?
No, Eric, of course not. There is no need for that when you clinch your nails. But I am suggesting if one is nailing back in the same holes to use one size bigger nail and clinch it. That's one more benefit I find in using a smaller nail to begin with. Another thing is that I feel a smaller, finer nail bends better in driving, penetrates and exits the wall somehow steeper. I believe that makes for a stronger connection. The strongest possible IMHO if you also clinch its end nicely.

I just can not see any benefit in using the biggest nail possible. If my nails were getting sheared, which I have never seen, I'd still look for faults in fitting instead of upgrading to a thicker nail.
Christos Axis
Last Edit: 20 May 2012 12:23 by Christos Axis.
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 12:46 #38

  • Eric Russell
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Christos Axis wrote:
No, Eric, of course not. There is no need for that when you clinch your nails. But I am suggesting if one is nailing back in the same holes to use one size bigger nail and clinch it.

I use the same size nail when reusing nailholes. That's after taking off the shoe without cutting the clinches. Your theory sounds good on paper but doesn't hold up in the real world.
I just can not see any benefit in using the biggest nail possible. If my nails were getting sheared, which I have never seen, I'd still look for faults in fitting instead of upgrading to a thicker nail.

The bigger the nail the more holding power. I'm sure I could use race nails to hold my shoes on but I prefer a larger nail with more holding power. I would do the same if my nails were being sheared.
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 12:56 #39

  • Christos Axis
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Eric Russell wrote:
Your theory sounds good on paper but doesn't hold up in the real world.
Yeap, that's always an issue with theories, they need to be tested. So are you suggesting that the shoes will stay on for a few days if I pull them without cutting the clinches and nail them back on in the same holes with the same size nail without clinching it ?
Christos Axis
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 13:33 #40

  • Travis Morgan
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Christos' theory DOES hold up in the real world. I know of several guys that use slim blades in their everyday work because, first off, the "smaller nail" theory makes sense, and also, if they have to use the same nail hole, they can got to a regular bladed nail and still get a snug fit.
Copenhagen. You can see it in my smile!
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 20 May 2012 14:14 #41

  • Eric Russell
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Christos, yes most of the time. Nothing is always.
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 22 May 2012 05:07 #42

  • Red Amor
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Eric Russell wrote:
Red Amor wrote:
there are rare occasions I have had to just get in n ripp a shoe off a hoof , ut Its not to be made habbit of as in short or long term will n does damage unwanted

This sounds similarly like the barefooters saying nails are bad for feet. Can you explain the short and long term damage done?

As the other fella said Eck
the majority of clenches on horse pulled or man pulled shoes are mostly still bent in clench form the hole in the tubials is made bigger I dont realy have to go into details as to how this increases damp absorbsion and the gunk the ends up as seedy toe in do I mate
but you try n ripp off the shoe from a good dry hoof n see ho hard you work if the clenches are well formed n laid to seat in hoof n see how ya go
not those that were half wrasped away when first fitted

With or without a clinch some shoes come off easy and some are very tight.
Yes mate they do
I dont like the practice of wrenching shoes I think it a bad habbit and Its makes Me feel sort of lazy n disrespectful to the horse the owner myself my teachers n the TRADE

Just because someone doesn't cut the clinch doesn't mean they're wrenching the shoe off.
No mate it doesent
FIRE AT WILL

There's nothing really to fire away at. You said you do it because of tradition. I've seen enough shoes come off with no damage to the foot that I see no reason to stick to tradition just for the sake of tradition. If somebody could come up with a valid reason I'd go back to cutting clinches.

I didnt say I did it because of tradition at all
I clench almost all of the nails I fit because I believe they help to hold shoe better to hoof
I didnt say so earlier post but believe this true
particularly in boggier conditions to mention the least
I also believe the big long clenches are weaker and once they lift mainly on over die horses they can be somewhat dangerous
properly forned and seated small clenches that arent over dressed when finishing are best

Please be asured Ive the utmost respect for you olson
even it I dont agree with you on every topic
Mark Anthony Amor
If we want anymore excrement like that outta you we'll squeese ya head :eek:
Mind how ya go now ;)
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Re: Could clinch gouging cause lost shoes? 22 May 2012 12:21 #43

  • vthorseshoe
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Doing drafts I clinch the nails, BUT I file them down short and grab them with my clinchers or hammer them down.
I then give them a tap with my hammer and file the wall clean and smooth so a woman's nylong won't get hung up on a clinch.

I have never needed to use a long clinch to hold shoe's on, infact I have learned over the years the longer the clinch left the more it will roll up on the hoof after time. A short clinch gives the nail just a wee bit of a hook and aides in keeping the nail from moving or shoe loosening up.

I have had the occasion where the nail was cut clean with the wall and i filed it smoot to the wall as such. When it came time to remove the shoe, that nail was still in tact, but I wouldn't quit clinching cause regardless of what others have said, in the long run, I do believe the clinch aides in keeping the shoe on and tight.

When removing a shoe, I have been in the habit of filing the clinch off then pop a heel and pull the nails individually.


my 2 cents worth ;)
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Last Edit: 22 May 2012 12:23 by vthorseshoe.
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