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TOPIC: Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium?

RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 16 Aug 2011 14:06 #61

  • Joey Aczon
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Yea, but your sacrificeing the time spent developing hammer control. Draw your own clips, forge your rolled toes and rocker toes in the end your saveing time and developed great skills.

I hear this argument a lot but I don't necessarily agree with it. I think that hammer control is important, but not to the degree you need to have to make a decent handmade shoe in a practical time for everyday shoeing.

It's the beauty and the curse of keg shoes. Of course if you're willing to spend the money on inventory to keep several different types of shoes to avoid doing a lot of forgework go ahead.

I do most of my work in handmade shoes, but that's my choice. I don't have some arrogant sense of duty like a number of people on here do thinking I'm cheating the horse and the trade by not being a proficient shoe maker. I just enjoy shoemaking, it's a big part of why I'm in this trade. Certainly I could have a higher profit margin based on hours per day vs horses shod and final net dollars. But I look at it as people willing to pay me for my hobby. I would probably make shoes either way, this way I make money for doing it.

I take pride in being able to do it, and still meet the horses needs. But not this overbloated sense that makes me feel justified in looking down my nose at those who don't or don't care to, and still manage to get the job done.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 17 Aug 2011 01:02 #62

  • Alicia Thompson
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Joey Aczon wrote:
I hear this argument a lot but I don't necessarily agree with it. I think that hammer control is important, but not to the degree you need to have to make a decent handmade shoe in a practical time for everyday shoeing.

It's the beauty and the curse of keg shoes. Of course if you're willing to spend the money on inventory to keep several different types of shoes to avoid doing a lot of forgework go ahead.

I do most of my work in handmade shoes, but that's my choice. I don't have some arrogant sense of duty like a number of people on here do thinking I'm cheating the horse and the trade by not being a proficient shoe maker. I just enjoy shoemaking, it's a big part of why I'm in this trade. Certainly I could have a higher profit margin based on hours per day vs horses shod and final net dollars. But I look at it as people willing to pay me for my hobby. I would probably make shoes either way, this way I make money for doing it.

I take pride in being able to do it, and still meet the horses needs. But not this overbloated sense that makes me feel justified in looking down my nose at those who don't or don't care to, and still manage to get the job done.

Can I get an Amen?!
Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box.
- Alicia Thompson


http://thompsonfarrierservice.com
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 19 Aug 2011 10:54 #63

Joey when Farriers encouraged me to learn how to make handmades, clips, forge weld, fuller make a decent heel and gave me constructive criticism. It helped me and the horses I shoe. At first a came across as arrogant but now I see what they were helping me.

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Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 19 Aug 2011 11:31 #64

  • BPethick
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Shoe making is about developing forging skills.
Learning to use your hammer and the horn on your anvil.

Yes, you can buy just about anything you may ever need to shoe a horse.
The difference is in how much ability you have to fit any given shoe to a foot.

If you have any doubt, watch someone proficient at turning shoes shape up a machine made at the anvil versus someone who is not. ;)
Bob Pethick CJF AFA #1340
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Only those who have the patience to do things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily...
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 19 Aug 2011 12:11 #65

  • IronBanger
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BPethick wrote:
Shoe making is about developing forging skills.
Learning to use your hammer and the horn on your anvil.

Yes, you can buy just about anything you may ever need to shoe a horse.
The difference is in how much ability you have to fit any given shoe to a foot.

If you have any doubt, watch someone proficient at turning shoes shape up a machine made at the anvil versus someone who is not. ;)

Well said Bob!
nick young
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 19 Aug 2011 13:12 #66

  • Joey Aczon
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BPethick wrote:
Shoe making is about developing forging skills.
Learning to use your hammer and the horn on your anvil.

Yes, you can buy just about anything you may ever need to shoe a horse.
The difference is in how much ability you have to fit any given shoe to a foot.

If you have any doubt, watch someone proficient at turning shoes shape up a machine made at the anvil versus someone who is not. ;)

I understand that Bob, furthermore I agree with you. But do you really think that level of skill is necessary for everyday shoeing with keg shoes? I'm all for promoting the ability, but what I have a problem with is guys that get snobby about it like you can't do a decent job on a horse without knowing how to crack a toe bend.

Yes, a person learning proficent shoemaking skill is going to learn how to get a nice shape shoe on a horse faster than someone just shaping keg shoes, but I also think it has to do with time at the anvil. Obviously someone making shoes is going to spend more time at the anvil and gain experience faster.

That said I have been trying, in vain, to start up a hammer in at my house for months now. But I can't get anyone interested.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 19 Aug 2011 19:36 #67

  • Gary Hill
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Joey, who really wants to fire up a forge in these 110 degree heat we have?? Wait til the first cold front and the forges will start blowing again..:D Right now the only handmades I have to make are liteshod and I dread them in this heat...
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 19 Aug 2011 19:55 #68

  • Mark_Gough
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Joey Aczon wrote:
... But do you really think that level of skill is necessary for everyday shoeing with keg shoes?

Necessary? No. For better or worse, "farriers" nail 'em up every day.

Important to assure quality work? Versatility in product delivery to best meet the needs of the horse? Respect for and continuance of the traditions that so often sets this trade apart from many others? Necessary to develop confidence in your ability to meet the needs of the horse?

Absolutely!
Yes, a person learning proficent shoemaking skill is going to learn how to get a nice shape shoe on a horse faster than someone just shaping keg shoes, but I also think it has to do with time at the anvil. Obviously someone making shoes is going to spend more time at the anvil and gain experience faster.

And that's it in a nutshell. More time at the anvil, forge and under a horse. You can teach knowledge. You cannot teach experience.
That said I have been trying, in vain, to start up a hammer in at my house for months now. But I can't get anyone interested.

They're probably tired from nailing up kegs on 12 horses a day. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I install keg shoes too. I also spend a lot of late nights demonstrating over and over again why I need even more time at the anvil and forge.

People occasionally ask me what I do for a living. It feels almost a gross exaggeration to tell them I'm a farrier.

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 20 Aug 2011 01:18 #69

  • Eric Russell
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I haven't read the thread but both shoes suck. as the conformation / natural angle of p3 changes so does the shape of the toe. Shaping the toe of a shoe which is excessively wide is tough.
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 20 Aug 2011 02:58 #70

  • George Geist
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chris bunting wrote:
90% of shoes i use are handmades .
chris

smitty88 wrote:
Tom were not in this for the money
we are in it for the love of job

7 generations of love for the job

Alicia Thompson wrote:
Too funny Tom I had the same thought about hand making nails, but didn't post it. Tradition is nice but results are what matters.

Quite honestly if in 30 years they come up with a machine that x-rays and attaches shoes to my requested specifications via x-ray. Guess what I would think that fabulous.

Anything to get the horse performing to it's best and I 100% don't see that hand making shoes makes a difference. I have even heard owners referring to them as "homemade" shoes, with a wrinkled nose at the thought.

Brand identity actually does make some difference to clients these days even in horseshoes. They want the brand on the back of the magazine, which is perceived as superior.

In fact in the modern times we now live I would say that for the most part anything that we can hand make can be made more precisely via machine. I have seen the difference being a few mm off can make.

I want precision on my horse and clients horses so if I can buy it cheaper, easier, better AND faster than making it..... to each their own.

I believe it was Craig Trnka who once said something to the effect of "lack of ability tends to really weigh down your truck"

I'd tend to agree with Chris and John. As long as you've got a fire, hammer and anvil you'll not need to be buying this stuff.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 20 Aug 2011 05:41 #71

  • chris bunting
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the 2 posts #63 and #64 by Phil Armitage and Bob Pethick explain in far better words what i was trying to say
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 20 Aug 2011 08:04 #72

  • Anthony_Lawrence
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Should folks forge their own racing plates too?
Ant.
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 20 Aug 2011 11:54 #73

  • George Geist
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Anthony_Lawrence wrote:
Should folks forge their own racing plates too?
Absolutely! Should hand make and sweat in the grabs as well;):)
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 21 Aug 2011 15:00 #74

  • brian robertson
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Bring back the 1960s...
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RE:Kerckhaert 'comfort' shoe how does it compare to the Mustad Equilibrium? 21 Aug 2011 16:12 #75

  • smitty88
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brian robertson wrote:
Bring back the 1960s...

They would have had to be craftsmen in them times
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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