Phil Armitage wrote:
I hear this argument a lot but I don't necessarily agree with it. I think that hammer control is important, but not to the degree you need to have to make a decent handmade shoe in a practical time for everyday shoeing.

It's the beauty and the curse of keg shoes. Of course if you're willing to spend the money on inventory to keep several different types of shoes to avoid doing a lot of forgework go ahead.

I do most of my work in handmade shoes, but that's my choice. I don't have some arrogant sense of duty like a number of people on here do thinking I'm cheating the horse and the trade by not being a proficient shoe maker. I just enjoy shoemaking, it's a big part of why I'm in this trade. Certainly I could have a higher profit margin based on hours per day vs horses shod and final net dollars. But I look at it as people willing to pay me for my hobby. I would probably make shoes either way, this way I make money for doing it.

I take pride in being able to do it, and still meet the horses needs. But not this overbloated sense that makes me feel justified in looking down my nose at those who don't or don't care to, and still manage to get the job done.

Joey Aczon wrote:
Can I get an Amen?!

Joey when Farriers encouraged me to learn how to make handmades, clips, forge weld, fuller make a decent heel and gave me constructive criticism. It helped me and the horses I shoe. At first a came across as arrogant but now I see what they were helping me.

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Shoe making is about developing forging skills.
Learning to use your hammer and the horn on your anvil.

Yes, you can buy just about anything you may ever need to shoe a horse.
The difference is in how much ability you have to fit any given shoe to a foot.

If you have any doubt, watch someone proficient at turning shoes shape up a machine made at the anvil versus someone who is not.

BPethick wrote:
Well said Bob!

BPethick wrote:
I understand that Bob, furthermore I agree with you. But do you really think that level of skill is necessary for everyday shoeing with keg shoes? I'm all for promoting the ability, but what I have a problem with is guys that get snobby about it like you can't do a decent job on a horse without knowing how to crack a toe bend.

Yes, a person learning proficent shoemaking skill is going to learn how to get a nice shape shoe on a horse faster than someone just shaping keg shoes, but I also think it has to do with time at the anvil. Obviously someone making shoes is going to spend more time at the anvil and gain experience faster.

That said I have been trying, in vain, to start up a hammer in at my house for months now. But I can't get anyone interested.

Joey, who really wants to fire up a forge in these 110 degree heat we have?? Wait til the first cold front and the forges will start blowing again.. Right now the only handmades I have to make are liteshod and I dread them in this heat...

Joey Aczon wrote:
Necessary? No. For better or worse, "farriers" nail 'em up every day.

Important to assure quality work? Versatility in product delivery to best meet the needs of the horse? Respect for and continuance of the traditions that so often sets this trade apart from many others? Necessary to develop confidence in your ability to meet the needs of the horse?

Absolutely!

And that's it in a nutshell. More time at the anvil, forge and under a horse. You can teach knowledge. You cannot teach experience.

They're probably tired from nailing up kegs on 12 horses a day.

Yeah, I install keg shoes too. I also spend a lot of late nights demonstrating over and over again why I need even more time at the anvil and forge.

People occasionally ask me what I do for a living. It feels almost a gross exaggeration to tell them I'm a farrier.

Cheers,
Mark

I haven't read the thread but both shoes suck. as the conformation / natural angle of p3 changes so does the shape of the toe. Shaping the toe of a shoe which is excessively wide is tough.

chris bunting wrote:
smitty88 wrote:
Alicia Thompson wrote:
I believe it was Craig Trnka who once said something to the effect of "lack of ability tends to really weigh down your truck"

I'd tend to agree with Chris and John. As long as you've got a fire, hammer and anvil you'll not need to be buying this stuff.
George

the 2 posts #63 and #64 by Phil Armitage and Bob Pethick explain in far better words what i was trying to say
chris

Should folks forge their own racing plates too?

Anthony_Lawrence wrote:Absolutely! Should hand make and sweat in the grabs as well;)
George

Bring back the 1960s...

brian robertson wrote:
They would have had to be craftsmen in them times