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TOPIC: Cytec

RE:Cytec 10 Apr 2006 15:07 #16

  • Bill Adams
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Fourtunate one,
The problem I have with cytec shoes is that they are are an unmalleable direct rip off of Gene O's work on the Natrual Balance shoes. As to them helping horses, I'm sure moveing the breakover back with any appliance will help alot of them, as I do with out NB shoes, I don't by them as I have a forge and hammer.
I find the moral isue enough to keep me from buying any rip off.
As to more people wanting cytec, followers, purchacers, and sellers of a product do not necessarily mean the product is good.
Try using your nane in the future, it may give you a bit of creditablity that you have lost by identifing with a bunch of crooks.
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Cytec 10 Apr 2006 15:23 #17

  • cowboy_bc
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fortunato wrote:
Hi guys! Just had to respond from over the pond to your postings re.cytek. It's been going here for about 8 years now and I have to say it's been met with the same kind or reaction as you boys in general. If US farriers are anything like most of them over here they'll be very suspicious if not downright hostile to it to start. Just to give you another perspective - there's a group of really skilled cytek farriers over here who are doing amazing - and I mean amazing - work with them. It'll probably take a long time for the old dinosaurs over here to cotton on which is why there's more people wanting cytek than there are farriers doing it but if you've all got any sense you'll take a long hard look.

Hi all,

Simply given the choice between NB and Cytec which arn't available here it's a no brainer. Also looking at both shoes the cytec only goes 1/2 way to what you can do with an NB. My everyday choice a properly fit eventer.

Kevin
Kevin Joseph Wheeler

Always strive to be the person your dog thinks you are.

if i was smart enought to spell properly I probably wouldnt be shoeing friggen horses for a living ay. Red Amor

If it don’t seem like it’s worth the effort it probably...
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RE:Cytec 14 Apr 2006 11:06 #18

  • fortunato
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Hi guys - I can tell you're all real open minded over there! ;)
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RE:Cytec 14 Apr 2006 12:10 #19

  • tbloomer
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fortunato wrote:
Hi guys - I can tell you're all real open minded over there! ;)
I'm too cheap to buy NB shoes. I use St. Croix Eventers, a forge, anvil, tongs, and hammer. Then I charge extra for my labor. My customers think they're getting something special . . . all that extra work I put into shaping a shoe. I hope that some NB shoer doesn't come along and make me look bad by doing the sam job cold. In a lot of cases, that's exactly what could be done and the horse's needs would be served. But I hope that remains a secret so that I can continue making the big bucks. Shhhhhh, don't tell anybody.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:Cytec 16 Apr 2006 08:01 #20

  • Bill Adams
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In what way do we exibit closed minds?
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Cytec 06 Jun 2006 10:49 #21

  • Tallisman
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Hi all,

I have posted this in another thread on this board, but felt I would get a better answer if I started a new one. So my apologies if you have already read this, but I am looking for the answer, if there is one ....

I am a farrier in Australia and have seen Cytek shoes without the lameness so many mention. I am not an advocate nor am I against, lol, so I am sort of on the fence and this is the reason why;
Who can tell me using anatomy, bio mechanics and/or scientific reasoning, why cytek shoes are as bad as many vets and farriers are making them out to be? I am a farrier who is open to looking at most shoes and shoeing systems as long as they can show me in the above manner why it would benefit the horse. I must confess that cytek has not convinced me that these shoes are better, but, I must also confess that reading your comments and listening to both vets and farriers discussing these shoes I have not been convinced that they are not better either.
I fully understand the poor quality of shoe, the large nail holes, the high cost, the possible increase in vibration and the fact that you cannot shape the shoes, but really, only one can have an effect on the horse (vibration) and these are not reasons why the shoe is incorrect for the horse.
So I would like just 1 person to explain to me why they are not suitable for the horse and why they have been so widely criticised, surely for something so widely criticised, there would be plenty of factual and scientific evidence or reasoning behind the criticism. Because I must say that from reading your comments it makes me feel you are all a little scared of these shoes.
I hope I have not offended anyone, but I feel we should look and discuss all new things on a more scientific level of cause and effect instead of criticising something we really don't understand inside and out.

Have a great day :)
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RE:Cytec 06 Jun 2006 11:53 #22

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Tallisman in gray, deletia

Who can tell me using anatomy, bio mechanics and/or scientific reasoning, why cytek shoes are as bad as many vets and farriers are making them out to be?

I fully understand the poor quality of shoe...

If you "fully understand" the poor quality, then you must understand that better quality shoes are available. Given that availability, why would anyone consider the application of an inferior product?

the large nail holes...

Here in the States, we seldom use a 7 regular head when a 5 slim will do the job. Perhaps we're overly fussy.

the high cost...


In terms of quality, why pay more for less when one can pay less for more?

the possible increase in vibration...


Vibration is a non-starter in all but the most esoteric applications.

and the fact that you cannot shape the shoes...


Unfortunately, horses' feet come in extremely varied types, kinds, sorts, shapes, and sizes.

but really, only one can have an effect on the horse (vibration) and these are not reasons why the shoe is incorrect for the horse...

Lemme see here: As you've pointed out quite correctly, Cytek shoes are an inferior, overpriced product that can't be shaped to fit the foot, with overly large nailholes. Why could they possibly be "incorrect" for the horse?

Because I must say that from reading your comments it makes me feel you are all a little scared of these shoes.

It's not the shoe that scares me, it's the effect of the shoe on its victims should anyone be ****** enough to use them.

I hope I have not offended anyone...


Not a problem, your post will doubtless engender some much needed laughter.

but I feel we should look and discuss all new things on a more scientific level of cause and effect instead of criticising something we really don't understand inside and out...

Did it every occur to you that the baisis for folks' criticism of Cytek is the fact that most of us on this forum fully understand that one shape cannot possibly fit every foot, as well as the other inherent faults of the shoe?

Probably not

Have a great day...

You've made mine. Seldom does a ship sail these waters that's so easy to sink. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Cytec 06 Jun 2006 12:16 #23

  • Rick Burten
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Tallisman]I have posted this in another thread on this board, but felt I would get a better answer if I started a new one. So my apologies if you have already read this, but I am looking for the answer, if there is one [/quote]
Seems to me that your questions were answered in the other thread, noteably in replies # 8,9,10,12.
I am a farrier in Australia and have seen Cytek shoes without the lameness so many mention. I am not an advocate nor am I against, lol, so I am sort of on the fence and this is the reason why wrote:
Its not about lameness per se, but about the shoe itself and its major inadequacies.
Who can tell me using anatomy, bio mechanics and/or scientific reasoning, why cytek shoes are as bad as many vets and farriers are making them out to be?
Asked and answered elsewhere. But a brief recap includes their excessive weight, p-i-ss poor nail holes and the inability(due to their construction) to shape them to the shape of the feet.
I am a farrier who is open to looking at most shoes and shoeing systems as long as they can show me in the above manner why it would benefit the horse.
That being the case, investigate the Natural Balance approach, the EDSS approach and meld those with good, common sense everyday farriery and you will come up with a winning approach. You might even want to look at the various composite varieties of shoes to add to your repitoire'
I must confess that cytek has not convinced me that these shoes are better, but, I must also confess that reading your comments and listening to both vets and farriers discussing these shoes I have not been convinced that they are not better either.
So convince yourself. Buy some Cytek shoes and some NBS shoes and couple them with what you normally do, and run your own field trials. Just make sure you have permission from the horse owner before you go nailing on those Cytek jokes.
I fully understand the poor quality of shoe, the large nail holes, the high cost, the possible increase in vibration and the fact that you cannot shape the shoes, but really, only one can have an effect on the horse (vibration) and these are not reasons why the shoe is incorrect for the horse.
You're kidding, right? If you truely believe that poor quality, large nail holes, and an inability to shape the shoes will not have an effect on the horse, then you need to stop shoeing horses until you have a better grasp of the art and science of farriery.
So I would like just 1 person to explain to me why they are not suitable for the horse and why they have been so widely criticised, surely for something so widely criticised, there would be plenty of factual and scientific evidence or reasoning behind the criticism.
Asked and answered(in fact you answered your own question quite well yourself). Time for you to read for content in context.
Because I must say that from reading your comments it makes me feel you are all a little scared of these shoes.
ROTFLMAO!!! The only thing that I fear about these shoes, is that some dimwit is actually nailing them on horses.
I hope I have not offended anyone, but I feel we should look and discuss all new things on a more scientific level of cause and effect instead of criticising something we really don't understand inside and out.
Ignorance offends me. ******ity offends me. Cytek is not new and it offends me that the shoe is such a blatent and really poor rip-off of another shoe and that some of the ignoranti de farriery actually promote this trash.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Cytec 06 Jun 2006 23:05 #24

  • calshoer
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first you ask...
Who can tell me using anatomy, bio mechanics and/or scientific reasoning, why cytek shoes are as bad as many vets and farriers are making them out to be?
Then you then clearly answered your own question.....
I fully understand the poor quality of shoe, the large nail holes, the high cost, the possible increase in vibration and the fact that you cannot shape the shoes,
So lets review, you cannot shape them to properly fit the foot, you cannot nail them properly with a small minimally invasive nail , and most of all they are cast iron, creating too much vibration through the foot on hard ground and the have little tungston buttons in the toe which do not allow ease of toe wear as the foot grows, to maintain breakover relative to the coffin bone durign the shoeing period. . . Is that scientific or biomechanical enough? :D
Patty
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
www.hoofcareonline.com
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RE:Cytec 06 Jun 2006 23:22 #25

  • Tallisman
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Hi all,

thanks for your answers but you have not really given me what I was hoping for. It seems that if the cytek shoe was of improved quality, better nail holes, malleable and of a softer steel then they would be ok for application where and how cytek say.
I thought there must be some issue with the shoe design (breakover) and placement of the shoe onto the hoof, but it seems that it is all about quality and their marketing.
It does amaze me a little as I have heard many stories with regard to these shoes causing lameness, even amazing tales of horses breaking legs) yet have not seen it myself, so I guess it may come down to the farrier applying the shoes as I am sure it does with most types of shoe.
As I have said, I do not use these shoes so I am not in any way pro cytek, just thought with all of the negative hype there must have been something more than you all have given me about the shoe design and placement that was a problem. Only Patty has given me anything that resembled reasoning on this front with regard to the pins in the shoes and how it effects wear. Although I have seen shoes that have been taken off horses and they had truly worn. Whether this was relative to the requirements of the horse or not I don't know.

Anyway, thanks for your efforts,

Have a great day :)
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RE:Cytec 07 Jun 2006 01:23 #26

  • Bill Adams
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Tallisman wrote:
It seems that if the cytek shoe was of improved quality, better nail holes, malleable and of a softer steel then they would be ok for application where and how cytek say.

And if my dog would ****** gold nuggets, I wouldn't shoe horses at all.
Welcom to the boards, good to see you come back after our frendly hello to ya.
Cytec is a rip off of another system that is realy open to using other brands of shoes or building your own. Cytec took the shoe disign and made a poor imitation with a sponcered shoer type program centered around a business plan rather than a protocall to improve horses way of going.
I watched Gene O. who started the Natural Ballance shoe co. show his method using St. Croioux Eventers. No sales pitch was used at the clinic.

It's good to keep an open mind, just be sure the brain dosen't fall out.
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Cytec 12 Jun 2006 09:26 #27

  • Tallisman
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LMAO, the silence is deafening.

Thanks for the replies anyway and I can assure you that I wont be using the cytek shoes in the future.
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RE:Cytec 13 Jun 2006 01:18 #28

  • Bill Adams
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What wasn't awnsered?
Why go second rate when NB is around?
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Cytec 13 Jun 2006 09:14 #29

  • Tallisman
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Hi Bill,

I suppose I was hoping someone would give me a difinitive answer on why I should not use or look into using these shoes based on the influence they have on the horse. I have heard farriers and vets infer that the shoes cause lameness on most horses they are placed on (not on this thread), so I suppose I was hoping for that answer. I am sure that large nail holes would not cause lameness, the fact that the shoe is unshapeable should not cause lameness if applied correctly using the correct size, vibration could cause some discomfort I suppose if on very hard terrain but I am not convinced this is what people are talking about. Maybe it is just me, but I thought there may be more to it, and as a few people on here had a fairly strong opinion and have made very strong comment, I thought surely they would know.
Also if some farriers are supposedly getting good results, why is this, when they are supposedly causing lameness on other horses? Is it the farrier? Is it the horses they are putting them on? Is it the application method?
Can I also ask, is it the same as NB or is there, more or less, to the cytek applied shoe?

Anyway, thanks again for the answers.
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RE:Cytec 13 Jun 2006 13:00 #30

  • Rick Burten
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Tallisman wrote:
I suppose I was hoping someone would give me a difinitive answer on why I should not use or look into using these shoes based on the influence they have on the horse.
Lets see if I got this right. You don't think you've gotten a definitive answer as to why a product that cannot be correctly formed to fit each individual foot thus forcing the applicator(some one who is demonstrably NOT a farrier because a true farrier wouldn't apply this piece of junk) to make all feet end up looking like the piece of cr-a-p they just naild to it, has to be applied with overly large nails which can cause excessive damage to hoof walls, not to mention, cause lameness if they are driven into sensitive tissue because thats where on some/many feet the nail holes lie in the unshapeable shoe, creates unwarranted and unnecessary vibration, ad naseum. Does that about cover it? If so, then I suggest you are probably a troll because were you a self-respecting farrier, you would long ago have figured out that your question(s) have been repeatedly answered and why the product is both junk and dangerous.
I have heard farriers and vets infer that the shoes cause lameness on most horses they are placed on (not on this thread), so I suppose I was hoping for that answer.
If you still have not been able to come to your own conclusions based on the information provided, I urge you to stop(if you ever started) shoeing horses until you have a much better grasp of all the concepts involved in trimming and shoeing horses. And, having admitted that you have heard farriers and vets opine on the subject, why have you not personally engaged them in conversation regarding the subject?
I am sure that large nail holes would not cause lameness,
Truely! try driving a #7 regular head nail into a thin walled thoroughbred and get back to me with the results.
the fact that the shoe is unshapeable should not cause lameness if applied correctly using the correct size,
Sorry dude but you have just made both a statement of logical fallacy and a verbose oxy******. You cannot correctly apply a shoe that is un-shapeable to any foot. And it cannot ever be the correct size. It will always be a compromise, and a bad one at that.
vibration could cause some discomfort I suppose if on very hard terrain but I am not convinced this is what people are talking about.
Where did you learn to shoe horses? From a Cytec "how-to video perhaps?
Maybe it is just me, but I thought there may be more to it, and as a few people on here had a fairly strong opinion and have made very strong comment, I thought surely they would know.
And know, they do! That you continue with your obtusiveness, is as worrisome as the allegation that you are a farrier.
Also if some farriers are supposedly getting good results, why is this, when they are supposedly causing lameness on other horses?
A conundrum for the ages! And one that someone could ask about any orthotic, right? Let alone one that is demonstrably inferior and best consigned to the trash bin, though I suppose it might prove useful as a paper weight or door stop or the like.
Is it the farrier? Is it the horses they are putting them on? Is it the application method?
Could be any or all of the above, but the problem originates with the lousy product and the doofi ****** enough to purchase and apply it.
Can I also ask, is it the same as NB or is there, more or less, to the cytek applied shoe?
The Cytek shoe is a really bad rip-off of the NBS pattern but that is where the similarity ends. And, there is definately less to the cytek applied shoe. Much, much less.

Anyway, thanks again for the answers.[/QUOTE]
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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