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TOPIC: glue on shoes

RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 15:33 #16

  • J.H. shoeing
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clips would help
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 16:46 #17

  • smitty88
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how bad are the feet
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 17:26 #18

I just read through everthing includeing Sigafoos's site and Epona's site. I am very familiar with Vettec Adhere. Clips would help alot useing Adhere and Epona's method. Epona's site does not use Adhere, I would use the glue they recommend. Maybe the Adhere does not bond to the Epona shoe that well.

Anyone notice all the different opinions on these sites to hoof function and application of the shoes. Especially sole pressure. Sigafoos says absolutely not glueing to bottom of foot and everyone else's method glues directly to bottom of foot. All these experts, doenst anyone know what the heck there talking about? He he :D I almost forgot the funniest thing of all, Engineers and world famous Farriers are involved. Must be right, right. :confused:

Makes me wonder, is this marketing or is this in the best interest of the horse? Can an expert out there please explain if you dare?
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 18:30 #19

I am not an expert, but that has never stopped me before! :D
Gluing shoes seems to me to be a last ditch effort, when nothing else works. IMO, the glue will, must and is just gonna keep the foot from expanding when it is applied behid the widepoint, or the glue will break and POP, of comes the shoe. If the shoe is seated, and the glue runs under the rim and hardens, it might produce sole pressure, but I am not certain. Has anyone done hemodynamic studies showing normal blood flow with a seated shoe, then what happens with a glued shoe? That would solve the sole pressure debate.
jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 19:41 #20

  • mwmyersdvm
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The glue on system I use on the US Park Police horses is a DalRic cuff to which the shoe is attached. The concussive forces of hard roads may contribute to glue failure. Gluing to the wall as opposed to the sole gives more surface area for bonding.
Dependent on where the glue is releasing there may be some prep problems. If it releases from the hoof, there may be some oil or drying issues. If it is releasing from the shoe, there may be some material compatibility along with a prep problem.
If you are going to use only two to four nails, you will need to use some really big ones. My rubber shod police horse uses #6 and #7 nails to prevent shearing of the nail shaft. The rubber grips the pavement pretty well and causes some serious torsional forces at the nail/shoe juncture.
Sufficient thickness of the glue is important for polyurethane products.
Just a note - your breakover on this horse is too far forward and may contribute to a lack of hoof wall quality. Note the slight "dish" near the coronet band. This is where he wants to breakover - actually just behind a line paralleling this line to the ground surface of the hoof. The numerous small distal cracks culd be indicative of the walls being too long and a slightly shorter hoof may be needed. Would need a radiograph to fully assess.
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RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 19:45 #21

Smitty,
The feet are not bad at all...now. We had been trying to go barefoot for improved hoof growth, healthier hoof wall, and to get rid of some whiteline(?), but started to be foot sore. I think he was sore because he was wearing out more foot than he grew, and also I think because here in Ocala Fl (very, very wet) we had very soft wet feet.
He is very comfortable now in the Epona, and with the "granules" they recommend with the packing...the sole is really quite nice and dry (at least in these 2-3 weeks, when we saw the sole after loosing a shoe).
Jason,
That is a very, very interesting point you bring out regarding the expansion at the heels (or widest point?, as you put it)...because Epona says it is standard/typical/expected (can't remember how they put it, and I don't want to misquote them) for there to be a failure/separation of the glue at the heels. (even with the recommended "Equibond"...although for arguements sake, we will probably use that next time) Also, the separation at the heels is with the foot...not the shoe. The Vettec Adhere is gluing very well to the shoe.
How would one perform a "hemodynamic" test? Is "hemo" blood/fluid circulation?
Thank again everybody,
Diana
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RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 20:39 #22

Anyone know if Equibond and Equilox is the same or not?
Phil Armitage, CF
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RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 23:48 #23

We have glued over 1500 horses (that we have records on). Still do it basically the same way as I described in my paper. We use no steel shoes or bar shoes. We did a study on 50 horses and showed there was no narrowing or contraction of the heels using glue-on shoes using this method. Composite is only used in the quarter/heel area

http://www.equipodiatry.com/glueon.htm

Stephen E. O'Grady, DVM, MRCVS
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RE:glue on shoes 16 Oct 2005 23:52 #24

Smitty, super glue? did that work? How long does it last?
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RE:glue on shoes 17 Oct 2005 01:37 #25

  • Donnie Walker
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Dr. O'Grady - your article states bar shoes were used for third phalynx fractures. In your above post you indicate bar shoes are not used. Have you stopped using them since your article was written, and if so, would you elaborate.
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RE:glue on shoes 17 Oct 2005 16:12 #26

Diana,
I've had varied success with glue on shoes here in Florida. The inherent moisture that soaks into the hoof will eventually loosen just about any kind of adhesive.

The trick to longer life of the glue bond is that the hoof is clean and DRY before glueing. Check with your glue mfr. to see if they recommend chemically degreasing or cleaners for the hoof. Use a hair dryer to dry the hoof. Make every effort to remove ALL loose or undermined wall before gluing.

I personally do not like to let the glue go past the quarters, but I watched Eddie Watson at a clinic slather Equibond all over the heels and he swears the heels don't contract. Eddie has been using glue ons for many many moons. But I don't think he does it on horses that live in Florida. I believe he has a large race horse clientele( or did have at the time of that clinic).

Also you might try running a considerable "bead" or "ribbon" of glue up the wall.

Where your applicaton of glue has it concentrated between the shoe surface and the wall/sole juncton, then the hoof was rasped smooth on the outside; if your glue actually "wraps" around from the sole/wall junction to the outside of the wall, then you can rasp the glue to blend in with the wall, but don't rasp it entirely away. Yes, you will be left with a ridge of glue around the wall.

Also depending on your shoe of choice, if you drill several "access" holes through the shoe, the glue will get pushed into those holes and will grab the shoe better. It doesn't look like you pressed all the glue out from between the shoe and hoof, which is good and is a coommon problem when first using glue on shoes.

Clips do help when using metal shoes. There are a few mfrs that make urethane shoes with clips. EasyWalkers, Mustad and Ibex, that I know of.

As to the shoes staying on on the hind hooves. Check your medial and lateral balance. From the pix all the hooves still seem high medially, especially the hinds. Also, when driving, your horse tends to use his butt more, so he may be a bit more active in theh ind end than when riding.

The hind feet wth the eponas(or any urethane shoe or shoe with traction), may not be able to slide enough during the landing phase, and this may prove to much jolt on the glue bond.

Watch your traces( tugs) and see if they are tightening against his hind legs, causing him to alter his hind steps, if they are- get a wider swivel tree, or incorporate a swivel tree into your cart.

Try beveling down the ground surface edges of the shoe at the toe and around to each heel.
Regards,
Kim

Those who only consider cost, do NOT consider the cost to the horse!

The more we know, the more we know we need to know more! Ya know?
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RE:glue on shoes 17 Oct 2005 16:37 #27

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Roy Amaral CJF wrote:
Smitty, super glue? did that work? How long does it last?
5 weeks is the best so far
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:glue on shoes 22 Oct 2005 10:29 #28

So disappointed :( ...In addition to lost shoe, others were a bit loose too, so we decided to reset all, only to find that we had a soft wet whiteline mess :eek: under the packing and glue.
For now, reset with his usual metal shoes (sorry, :confused: don't know what kind they are?), but might try Epona's again down the road...just nailing them on?
Any advise?
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RE:glue on shoes 22 Oct 2005 13:18 #29

Diana,

I am sorry to hear that noone appriased you that yes using glue will leave you with a soft mess at the end of your shoeing cycle. This is especially true if your client refuses to listen and continue to oil and/or continually bath the horse (Ie Wet condtions). This is the main reason why, to me glueing is a last resort.
I find that if (and its a big IF)the horse can hold a shoe, in a wet enviroment ( I live in Aiken, SC and we had a terribly wet summer, feet were rotting out from underneath horses), the best choice is using a light steel shoe (avoid aluminum in wet climates)like an eventer with clips, fit the shoe well and do a good hot fit, using care to get your clips burned in. I also advise the client to use a hoof hardener like Crossopol or Keratex every day for 10 days, then 4 times a week thereafter. These dressings also works well if you have to glue shoes on as well. I find the beauty of hot shoeing a wet foot is that it does several things; 1. Drys the foot out, 2. burns the keratin back into the foot, 3. kills any organisms living at the ground surface level. Just remember to use care on an short foot, and never burn a shoe hotter than orange, or colder than red-black. Another great trick for soft wet feet is a heat gun. By drying the foot out with a heat gun before trimming, you get a more accurate trim, and better horn to nail to.
Now the kicker, I had to put my own horse in Sigafoos shoes last weekend! I have a 2 year old TB colt who has suc***bed to the dreaded Thorobred feet in a wet climate on hard(er) footing. His feet were short and tender and I didn't want to traumatize him his first time with shoes. I felt good when about and hour later he started galloping around his field, where he hadn't been playful in 10 days.
I had to resort to glue on about 6 horses this summer (and quit one large account when the owner refused to follow directions on how to dry her horses' feet out, and instead continue to play the blame game).

Hope this helps,
Dianne Lemmon
The Farrier Princess ;)
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RE:glue on shoes 22 Oct 2005 13:22 #30

Phil Armitage wrote:
Anyone know if Equibond and Equilox is the same or not?


Phil,

As far as I have been told yes they are both the same. They are both supposed to be 3:1 ratio Methyl Methacrylate adhesives.

Dianne
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