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TOPIC: Perfect clips?

Perfect clips? 07 Mar 2009 19:36 #1

  • HOSSBOSS
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I'm alway's trying to draw out the perfect clip on my shoe's, but it alway's comes out lopsided or too thin:-( I know exactly how there supposed to be but i geuss i need lots more practice with it.

I've tried useing a clip starter but i didn't like it at all. It's much easyier to draw it from the shoe as i was taught.

Does anyone have tips on how to draw out the perfect clip? Or is it practise,practise,practise??
I don't want it too fat or too thin:-(
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RE:Perfect clips? 07 Mar 2009 20:10 #2

  • smitty88
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Have a look at my album pulling clips
and see if that helps
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Perfect clips? 07 Mar 2009 21:51 #3

  • solidrockshoer
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Hossboss wrote:
Does anyone have tips on how to draw out the perfect clip? Or is it practise,practise,practise??
I don't want it too fat or too thin:-(

H.B.
Smitty's clip is an example of perfection alright. I'm not going to improve on that, but here is a method that is much easier for someone having difficulty with consistency.
I) draw a small bubble on the corner of your anvil to start.
2) draw that bubble down the side or across the face of your anvil
3) stop striking when the tip is the right thickness, remember the strength is at the base of the clip.
Sorry these are not the best photos.
John
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RE:Perfect clips? 07 Mar 2009 21:54 #4

  • Cyber Farrier
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Sweet, Smitty. You're the poster child for using the Albums educationally.

Has anyone noticed yet, that you can add comments (or ask questions) to the photos? That's what the Comments feature is for.

Baron
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RE:Perfect clips? 07 Mar 2009 22:27 #5

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HOSSBOSS wrote:
I'm alway's trying to draw out the perfect clip on my shoe's, but it alway's comes out lopsided or too thin:-( I know exactly how there supposed to be but i geuss i need lots more practice with it.

I've tried useing a clip starter but i didn't like it at all. It's much easyier to draw it from the shoe as i was taught.

Does anyone have tips on how to draw out the perfect clip? Or is it practise,practise,practise??
I don't want it too fat or too thin:-(

Have you any pics of your clips Hossboss
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Perfect clips? 08 Mar 2009 04:46 #6

  • beslagsmed
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Hossboss,
If your clips are going to one side, take notice of your elbow and which way you are moving your arm. If you are left handed, pull your elbow in, take a half step back with your left foot and a slight step forward with your right. This will turn your body a little and let your left arm come straight back. If you're right handed, step back slightly with your right, forward with your left and keep your right elbow in when stricking. This will help get more of a straight clip.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:Perfect clips? 08 Mar 2009 06:19 #7

  • Rick Talbert
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Hossboss, if your clips are too wide, what are you using to get your source? Spend some cash and get a good clipping hammer it makes a huge difference. I see some guys trying to pull clips with some sort of ball pein home depot style hammer and the clips usually end up looking like mouse ears. Its like trying to race a VW bug in the Indy 500, you need good tools. If you already have a good clipping hammer then it boils down to hammer control and accuracy. beslag had good advice to help with you clip symmetry, but I find that if you draw the clip using the side of your hammer it alleviates a lot of the asymmetry you get when drawing a clip using the back edge of the hammer, esp. if your elbow has a tendency to drift. I also find that the anvil makes a big difference to me. It is much easier to draw clips on a heavier anvil that is tied down very solidly, than it is on a lighter anvil that is not tightly secured to a base. If your clips are to thin, it could be that you are not getting enough source material to work with. Or it could be that you are trying to hammer out your clips with pulling hammer blows. Clips are not actually pulled, but forged. "Pulling" clips (as we all say) gives the wrong impression. Using the edge of the hammer only, with repetitive accurate blows at the base of the clips, forces the material to walk right out. Light flat blows once the clips is drawn gets rid of the ripples. If you are pulling your clips across the face of the anvil using the back edge of the hammer, drop your hammer hand down downward to really work the back edge of the hammer. I personally like the side of the hammer, but you can do it either way. Get your source material by hammering at roughly a 45 degree angle directly into the edge of the anvil (preferably a crisp edge). Some guys try to roll their hammer blows over the edge attempting to get the source and forge a clip at the same time by pushing blows or hammering into or down the side of the anvil, this move never works and yields embarassing results. Rather than hammerin and hopin, repetitive blows directly into the edge of the hammer from a 45, starting with the shoe held at a high angle and slowly dropping your tong hand downward in the hammering process. Hammer hand is the **** hand, tong hand is the smart hand. Scott Davidson says something about "milk and cookies" but that don't make any sense to me cause I eat cookies with both hands, lol. Even doing everything right it still requires a great deal of practice (what I should be doing much more of). Muscle memory. Clips are very frustrating if your a perfectionist, or obsessive compulsive as my wife would describe me, I can do them well if I've been practicing a little, but if I haven't drawn any in a while they stink. A few other moves that may help; You can use the edge of the anvil to lock the base of the clip in after it is drawn. Once you have your source, I often will put it on the tapered end of the horn and hammer one light blow on either side of the source just to pack that material back into the soon to be clip, then I will put the shoe into a position to draw out the material, but before I use the edge of the hammer i will hammer one flat blow again on either side of the source. Both these moves help a little to keep it from getting too wide.
Depending on your hammer selection, hammer weight and balance, sometimes the best hammer to get your source material with may not be the best hammer to draw the clip sometimes two different hammers may work better, but it just depends on your hammer arsenal. Good luck, keep practicin and I'll do the same :) hope this helps some.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Perfect clips? 08 Mar 2009 06:24 #8

  • Rick Talbert
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45 degrees may be a little low thinking about my own hammer swing.
Rick Talbert
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RE:Perfect clips? 08 Mar 2009 13:56 #9

  • Mike Ferrara
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What Rick describes using the edge of the hammer is really fullering...not to be confused with creasing, of course.

I've done it different ways over the years but these days, I use the edge of the anvil as the fuller rather than the edge of the hammer...a bottom fuller as apposed to a top fuller. My hammer swing stays the same throughout when drawing the bubble into a clip and I control where the fullering is done by changing the position of the clip on the edge of the anvil. The hammer blows are slightly into the edge of the anvil. The last couple of blows are flat to get the ripples out but the ripples are mostly on the inside of the clip anyway.

rick says that drawing the bubble down the side of the anvil isn't good. I don't know but if I feel the need to cheat, for whatever reason, I'll use the ball side of a ball peen to give the bubble some shape before I start drawing in earnest.

One of the reasons I started doing it this way is because it almost doesn't matter what hammer I use. I like a little crown to the face but, other than that, it doesn't matter much. Some of my favorite hammers are hardware store ball peens with just a little grinder touch-up.

I've played with all kinds of hammers for getting the bubble but, aside from not using something that's too wide or rediculously narrow, the most important thing seems to be the ability to hit where you aim and some days are better than others.

I haven't taken the time to make friends with my bob-punch but it's on my list of things to do. I used to like using a clip horn but none of my shop anvils have one. John Emsley's suggestion looks interesting.
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RE:Perfect clips? 08 Mar 2009 14:07 #10

  • smitty88
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Its realy down to hammer control
i know a couple of lads that can

use a sledge to make the tidyest
clips you would see

and that was the big sledge:eek:
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Perfect clips? 08 Mar 2009 15:00 #11

  • clinkercjf
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A poor craftsman blames his tools. As Smitty said it comes down to hammer control wich in reality is eye control. You make one bad blow and that is where your eye will go and subsequently more bad hammer blows.

Jim Keith says the secret to good hammer drawn clips is hitting the same place more than twice.

Clinker
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RE:Perfect clips? 08 Mar 2009 21:00 #12

  • Rick Talbert
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There are many ways to skin a cat. I only expressed what works best for me. Hammer control consistency is true no matter what technique you choose. Growing up my uncle used to tell me "a good carpenter can use anyone's tools", in my opinion that is rhetoric. It was BS then and its BS now. Give someone a spoon and tell them to dig a trench and see how far they get. The correct tool for whatever job you do makes things a lot easier. That is just being smart. If you are struggling with clips a sledge hammer may not be your first choice. I'm not argueing that it couldn't be accomplished with a sledge hammer, just that most of us would have a little difficulty with that. If I had to pull a clip with a sledge it would come out lookin terrible and then I'd be a poor craftsman cause the first thing I'd say would be "what the heck do you expect I'm using a sledge hammer to pull a clip!"
Rick Talbert
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RE:Perfect clips? 08 Mar 2009 22:19 #13

  • smitty88
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Hossboss,
what i have noticed about you ,you start alot of threads
but then go missing

you started this thread
people have made an effort to guide you

but you have left town
a bit anoying
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Perfect clips? 09 Mar 2009 00:45 #14

  • Joey Aczon
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smitty88 wrote:
Hossboss,
what i have noticed about you ,you start alot of threads
but then go missing

you started this thread
people have made an effort to guide you

but you have left town
a bit anoying

I'm pretty sure by now he/she is eligible for some sort of certificate for completion of a farrier correspondence course here on the FHRC.

I don't know if any of you have looked, but "HOSSBOSS" has 130 posts, and 126 of them are starting new threads.

I'm left to wonder how much HB really knew before coming here. I mean there really aren't any topics that he/she hasn't covered.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

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