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TOPIC: working on a square horn

RE:working on a square horn 17 Feb 2009 14:59 #31

  • Joey Aczon
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fairweatherforge wrote:
When I used the Mankel, I only used the front part of the horn.

I only use about the last 3" most of the time. You really need to get out there when you're working hind shoes.

And Jakes right, that's a great spot to draw steel on.
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:working on a square horn 17 Feb 2009 19:55 #32

fairweatherforge wrote:
If you've seen the ferrie videos, they actually start turning the branches on the face of the anvil. As long as you don't get chatter marks on the inside of the web you can turn shoes anywhere you want.

When I used the Mankel, I only used the front part of the horn.


I always start turning branches on the face. It's a lot faster that way. I just fine tune on the horn. In the US I worked a flat/oval horn sometimes but it drives me crazy. A horn should be round.

But the way I thought you guys meant this with a square horn.....


Ronald Aalders
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RE:working on a square horn 17 Feb 2009 20:26 #33

  • Ray_Knightley
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Ronald Aalders wrote:
I always start turning branches on the face. It's a lot faster that way. I just fine tune on the horn. In the US I worked a flat/oval horn sometimes but it drives me crazy. A horn should be round.

But the way I thought you guys meant this with a square horn.....


Ronald Aalders

Thats what we call a square horn ,or four edge horn here ,round is round horn even if its flat here!!

ray knightley..
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RE:working on a square horn 17 Feb 2009 22:01 #34

everyhorseisapersontoo wrote:
Thats what we call a square horn ,or four edge horn here ,round is round horn even if its flat here!!

ray knightley..

I've heard it called a Double Bick,
One round and the other flat.

It is what mine is, a double bick.
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:working on a square horn 17 Feb 2009 23:38 #35

  • Joey Aczon
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Did you ever get that anvil Ronald? How do you like it?
Joey Aczon

Over-specialize and breed in weakness... It's slow death. :cool:

"I never make the mistake of arguing with people for whose opinions I have no respect." — Gibbon
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RE:working on a square horn 17 Feb 2009 23:55 #36

  • calshoer
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What Position is the tong -hand, ? That would be a good spot to draw some steel out, i think.
As you well know, where your tong hand is depends on what you are doing to the steel at that moment. That is why I said "do the same thing with your tong hand" without being specific. If you *really" can't figure it out , :rolleyes: if you were turning that branch, you would be in the process of lowering your tong hand before each hammer drop to maintain a little "space" between the steel and the horn into which to move the steel. It's just that the place to do that is a little more toward the side of the horn where it is more curved, not so close to the center line.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:working on a square horn 17 Feb 2009 23:58 #37

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I was taught to turn the toe bend on the face, and the branches around the horn.....anmd still do it that way on the rare occasion that I HAVE to make a shoe just to show someone how they shod horses back in the in the age of the dinosaurs. :D
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:working on a square horn 18 Feb 2009 00:38 #38

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calshoer wrote:
I was taught to turn the toe bend on the face, and the branches around the horn.....anmd still do it that way on the rare occasion that I HAVE to make a shoe just to show someone how they shod horses back in the in the age of the dinosaurs. :D

I was under the impression you turned shoe's on hitch rails and various parts of tractors.
Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils. Louis Hector Berlioz

Troy Ehrmantraut, CJF
2002 Journeyman Practical High Score Award.
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RE:working on a square horn 18 Feb 2009 02:45 #39

  • BPethick
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horseshoe1 wrote:
Bob, I was wondering about that after I read the first post. I have only one anvil and it is a 125# Centuar designed by Bruce Daniels that has a flat horn and the tapered boat tail horn on the other. I was thinking about trading out for a 100# Scott to get the round horn and loose 25# in and out of my truck.
I am kind of sentimental about the anvil and would love to convert it over to the rounder style. Have you done it? Do you have any tips? That horn looks like it has plenty of material to spare, I just never seriously considered modifying it.

Jim,

The Scott Anvil would be a much better choice over either anvil as they are.

The horn is not hardened, so grinding has no ill effects. I have rebuilt and reshaped anvils in the past and only had a better anvil for the effort.

If you just rounded off the corners on the horn of the Mankel, it would be easier to shape shoes on...
Bob Pethick CJF AFA #1340
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Only those who have the patience to do things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily...
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RE:working on a square horn 18 Feb 2009 03:38 #40

  • calshoer
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I was under the impression you turned shoe's on hitch rails and various parts of tractors.
Oh sure, I have just for giggles once or twice, I suppose in reality, anyone with a forge and a hammer could turn a shoe on a boulder, the concrete floor, truck bumper, Jake's head, whatever. ;)
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:working on a square horn 18 Feb 2009 05:21 #41

  • J.H. shoeing
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calshoer wrote:
Oh sure, I have just for giggles once or twice, I suppose in reality, anyone with a forge and a hammer could turn a shoe on a boulder, the concrete floor, truck bumper, Jake's head, whatever. ;)

there ya go making personal digs at somebody and when they school you you'll be crying for the principal. and just to stay on topic I use the bumper of my 73 ford truck to shape my shoes
Jeff Holder

Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:working on a square horn 18 Feb 2009 11:22 #42

Joey Aczon wrote:
Did you ever get that anvil Ronald? How do you like it?

Yes I bought it. I have it set up on this anvil stump deal. The guy that sold it to me said the anvil stump is not strong enough for a 220 Lbs anvil. I don't see why.

I have not worked it much though. While at it I ordered a new forge for in the shop too..............



Ronald Aalders
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RE:working on a square horn 18 Feb 2009 11:29 #43

calshoer wrote:
As you well know, where your tong hand is depends on what you are doing to the steel at that moment.

My mentor told me very spefically that the position of the tong and your hand is always more or less the same holding the shoe your working on. As is your position behind the anvil. Changing the position of your tong hand causes extra strain that will only slow you down, or show bystanders you lack milage behind an anvil............

I'm not sure how you make shoes but it sounds like you'd have a hard time making 12 in an hour like he did. (Truth be told I tried it once or twice but never even get close to that either.)


Ronald Aalders
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RE:working on a square horn 18 Feb 2009 15:31 #44

  • calshoer
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Ronald , Jake knows exactly what I meant and he is just digging at me because of my attitude about handmade shoes.

As to where my tong hand is, maybe I did not word it clearly. Of COURSE I know that the tong hand does not change grip on the reins nor does the grip on the steel change during the work in that heat. What I meant was that the tong hand will be moving as the bar is being worked over the horn, in order to move the bar stock under the hammer. Otherwise you would be just hitting the steel in the same spot and drawing it. .
Its basic blacksmithing. You know that, I know that, and so does Jake. Geesh.
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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RE:working on a square horn 18 Feb 2009 18:36 #45

calshoer wrote:
Ronald , Jake knows exactly what I meant and he is just digging at me because of my attitude about handmade shoes.

As to where my tong hand is, maybe I did not word it clearly. Of COURSE I know that the tong hand does not change grip on the reins nor does the grip on the steel change during the work in that heat. What I meant was that the tong hand will be moving as the bar is being worked over the horn, in order to move the bar stock under the hammer. Otherwise you would be just hitting the steel in the same spot and drawing it. .
Its basic blacksmithing. You know that, I know that, and so does Jake. Geesh.


It's not about the grip, it's about the position of your hand holding the shoe relative to the horn or the face. Basically that position is always the same.

Ronald Aalders
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