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TOPIC: tempering pritchells

RE:tempering pritchells 05 Sep 2009 21:29 #61

  • Ray_Knightley
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I use Air tempered steel ,this means if it does loss its shape i just shape it up and then do nothing just leave it to cool .The heat it has after its been through a few shoes is enough to reshape most times
Nothing special ...after a few months they get sort of over the hill so I just grind it back and start the new area the same..

They are sold in all shapes and sizes here I look for Luft harter on the side...
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RE:tempering pritchells 05 Sep 2009 21:31 #62

Phil Armitage wrote:
Just caught this thread and starting reading all the great information.

I have been reworking my pritchels with the hammer, getting it to a red heat. Then driving it into the ground for years. Just reworked it today and it is currently driven into my front lawn. Ooops. :D

Just doing what I was taught, seems to work OK, but the end mushrooms easy.

phil,was that meant as a joke? I myself don't think so?
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RE:tempering pritchells 05 Sep 2009 21:36 #63

Ray_Knightley wrote:
I use Air tempered steel ,this means if it does loss its shape i just shape it up and then do nothing just leave it to cool .The heat it has after its been through a few shoes is enough to reshape most times
Nothing special ...after a few months they get sort of over the hill so I just grind it back and start the new area the same..

They are sold in all shapes and sizes here I look for Luft harter on the side...

Ray,if a man doesn't know what he is doing,the best thing is to let it cool down by itself~ But as you likely know,they never last........................To be able to grind one down all the time,it would have to be as good as a breckenridge~
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RE:tempering pritchells 05 Sep 2009 21:44 #64

  • Ray_Knightley
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Just passin through~ wrote:
Ray,if a man doesn't know what he is doing,the best thing is to let it cool down by itself~ But as you likely know,they never last........................To be able to grind one down all the time,it would have to be as good as a breckenridge~

so you don`t know what you are doing or what are you trying to say???
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RE:tempering pritchells 05 Sep 2009 21:51 #65

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Just passin through~ wrote:
Ray,if a man doesn't know what he is doing,the best thing is to let it cool down by itself~ But as you likely know,they never last........................To be able to grind one down all the time,it would have to be as good as a breckenridge~

Don`t really understand ,try doing it any other way with that steel it will fly up in your face or crack straight from top to bottom...as for lasting cost me 11 euros about 3 years back ...not bad really
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RE:tempering pritchells 06 Sep 2009 02:06 #66

Just passin through~ wrote:
phil,was that meant as a joke? I myself don't think so?

Not a joke at all, I actually do that. Amazing as it may seem one of my pritchels has held up doing this exact thing two years ago and has not mushroomed at all.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:tempering pritchells 06 Sep 2009 09:12 #67

  • smitty88
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Do any of you dress your pritchels at the end of each day

or during the coarse of the day if needed

if making shoe do you have one or three dressed pritchels to choose from

if its a cold morning i put the pritchels/stamps up near the fire
just to warm them a bit

you can get a weld or pritchel braking when its very cold

the more use you give your stamp/pritchels the tuffer they get
providing the quality is there

dressing your pritchels in a gas fire does not do as well as dressing in coke
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:tempering pritchells 06 Sep 2009 12:07 #68

smitty88 wrote:
Do any of you dress your pritchels at the end of each day

or during the coarse of the day if needed

if making shoe do you have one or three dressed pritchels to choose from

if its a cold morning i put the pritchels/stamps up near the fire
just to warm them a bit

you can get a weld or pritchel braking when its very cold

the more use you give your stamp/pritchels the tuffer they get
providing the quality is there

dressing your pritchels in a gas fire does not do as well as dressing in coke

What do you mean by dressing? It sounds like you mean pre-heat before using it. No I have never done that, but is sounds like a good idea. It can get very cold in my area. I have had punches that mushroomed when they were new and after some use they would not mushroom anymore. Must be good quality and getting harder with use.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:tempering pritchells 06 Sep 2009 14:55 #69

I dress my punch and pritchel maybe once a week, with much use. :p
Properly worked tools should not mushroom nor need dressing/fixing
Except for when the tool is forced beyond its work.
ie. the head stamp will only go so far through the shoe,
then it will mushroom if hit much more.
A prichel should not mushroom nor bend unless the pritchel hole is missed.

Fixing either with a hammer is not acceptable,
head stamps and pritchels are Precision Hot Tools
and need to be built as such and maintained as such.


I have post the following a couple of times in the past
but it never hurts to post again.
Heat Treating H13
First h13 is the best Tool Steel to use for hot work, and this is why, when you are working hot the tool heats up, and of all the tool steels, it will retain its hardened properties, to a higher temp. And will retain is properties at that heat for a longer period of time, than all other steels. When you buy h13, it is in its annealed (softened) state, so those who machine the steel are able to, off the rack.

These are the steps necessary to have nice working tools that you will only need to touch up once a week or so. (That’s one punch and one pritchel per week!!! Even making a lot of shoes.) First never work h13 as high a heat as yellow, or as low as a dull red, or less, as you will destroy the steel for the intended use. First raise the temp. of the steel slowly as this will ensure there is a core heat. Work h13 at a near yellow heat to a red heat. After you forge h13 to a punch or pritchel, you need to relieve the stress created by hammer forging. This is done by after cooling the worked h13, reheat slowly to near its critical temp, which is 1860’f. Then stuff it into a bucket of finely sifted coke ash and allow to cool slowly. Now it is ready for heat treating.

NOTE:
NEVER EVER QUENCH IN WATER OR OIL,
AS h13 IS AN AIR QUENCH STEEL ONLY.

Heat treating h13 is as such,
Again slowly raising the temp. to near critical, and holding for a time then raise the temp. to the upper critical temp. about 1870’f. ( near yellow )Hold at this temp for a time. Then quench the h13 with pressurized air. I use a portable air tank rigged with a regulated air flow so as 100lbs will release slowly over ten min. or so. I shoot the air at the tip of the punch so it flows around the tool and down the shaft until a black heat, and then let cool in a standing air ( still air )
I don’t temper the hardness, but for the odd time that you might beat the end of your punch into the anvil or use your pritchel on cold steel to open cold a nail hole you forgot to check, then you may wish to temper the hard ness by taking the hardened tool and raising the temp into dull red, and the leave in still air till cool to the touch, then repeat the step again.

The next step is hard for me to reveal as it maybe the edge needed in a competitive arena.

So for the working Farriers, I have a belt sander with a 6” disk, which I use to work the five surfaces of the punch and prichel, giving it a very smooth surface with razor sharp corners. This is now a cutting tool. One hit to set the punch into the shoe, the next to drive it, the third, a little softer to hear it hit the anvil. No more. (when the punch has gone as far as it can through the hot steel, there will be a distinctly different sound when you strike the punch).
When using the tool I quench in pine tar ( forshners ) every hole or every second hole. One, not to cool the tool, but to keep it from getting to hot, and two, the pine tar liquefies on the tool lubricating it.
No matter what you do to treat your tools or what type of tool steel you use, if you beat it into the anvil the end will mushroom. With this method, after I head set, and then pritchel, one or two hits with the pritchel, as I’m lifting the shoe with the pritchel, off the anvil many times it will just fall off of the pritchel. I really love it when that happens.

I hope this helps. Let me Know.


Exerted from an article on my web site
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:tempering pritchells 06 Sep 2009 15:53 #70

  • smitty88
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Brad are they pritchels
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:tempering pritchells 06 Sep 2009 16:14 #71

smitty88 wrote:
Brad are they pritchels

I didn't realize this was a thread from '08
I looked back to page one and saw that I post my stuff already

I spelled it right there ???

lol, Does that make it OK ???

PS. Thanks for the correction. :D
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:tempering pritchells 02 Nov 2009 05:29 #72

  • SlowShoe
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My pritchel problem is that I hardly ever get a square (or rectangular if you will) clean nail hole. Almost always have shrapnel attached to the nail hole, or it comes out roundish on the foot side. I feel like my pritchels are well dressed but i guess i may be wrong.

How many of you have this problem?
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RE:tempering pritchells 02 Nov 2009 05:52 #73

I have a small #1 nail pritchel,
and I always use it to back punch all of my nail holes.

This always gives me a nice square nail hole, foot side.
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:tempering pritchells 02 Nov 2009 13:11 #74

  • Gary Hill
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Punch the nail holes at a grey heat after you have plenty of depth with the forepunch and it should only take one hit to punch a clean hole with the pritchel.
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:tempering pritchells 02 Nov 2009 14:36 #75

  • Craig Trnka
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Never ever grind on a pritchel! work the pritchel in a good color and never hit it once the color is gone. A pritchels life is about a set of shoes (4) then it starts to lose its crispness. You don't want a taper on the end you would like a parallel or even a reverse taper, this is so you "pop" out the slug and not cut through the material. You can quench H13 in water if your name is Jay Sharp but for the rest of us mortals stay away from dipping it in anything. Doctor on your pritchels before you start making shoes and let them set by the fire(coke) or on top of the fire (gas) and cool as slowly as possible.

And never, never, set the freshly dressed pritchel on the concrete or cold steel shelve. It's the same as shaking a baby (it messes them up)

If you want to improve your hammer swing don't ask someone who is wearing an elbow brace.

If you want a nice pritchel hole don't ask someone who grinds on them.

The pritchel hole should be the same size as the nail shank just below the head (little pearl of wisdom)

Craig
"I have never seen a barefoot trimmer that was barefoot." Me
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