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TOPIC: Quarter Crack Repair

RE:Quarter Crack Repair 27 Mar 2009 21:52 #16

Rick Burten wrote:
Nice work Bradley.

It appears from the photo that you have chosen to not float the heel on the affected side and that there is still evidence of coronary jamming above the existing problem. Is there a reason you chose not to float the heel and how are you addressing the jamming.

Thanks,

Rick

Shoulda, coulda, woulda floated the heal, for sure.
Did it the last two times, and it helps.

Guess I Focused on the trim as it was all through live sole
and you know how that can go.
Got concerned about the WLD . . .
and the horse isn't trust worthy with a drumml buzzin . . .

After looking at the photo,
should have dropped the heels more as well, and put another wedge in.

like John Mayall says there's Room to Move on this one :o
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 27 Mar 2009 23:34 #17

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Looks good. Neat how that worked.
Wouldn't you be concerned about the
wedge causing more jamming. Maybe a
frog support pad, or heartbar. I would
definately try to unweight(float) the
affected area.

Good job!

Dan
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 28 Mar 2009 15:43 #18

  • reillyshoe
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Are you all sure that a jammed up coronary band is a sign of excess loading? Floating the crack seems to suggest that you think it is a result of excess loading as well.
I am changing my mind, one foot at a time.
P
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 28 Mar 2009 16:02 #19

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reillyshoe wrote:
Are you all sure that a jammed up coronary band is a sign of excess loading? Floating the crack seems to suggest that you think it is a result of excess loading as well.
I am changing my mind, one foot at a time.


On one jammed that bad it would be my first guess. I don't usually use the coronary band as much reference for irreguler loading. But, it sure couldn't hurt to try.:) Like you, I change my mind all the time.:o
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 28 Mar 2009 16:35 #20

hotrodiesel wrote:
Looks good. Neat how that worked.
Wouldn't you be concerned about the
wedge causing more jamming. Maybe a
frog support pad, or heartbar. I would
definately try to unweight(float) the
affected area.

Good job!

Dan
Hi Dan
About 3 years ago the horse was going to be put down,
I was called out as a last try to make the horse sound.
So the horse will be in wedges for the rest of its life.

I'm not sure if that is like a twin engine aircraft . . .
Single engine advocates, believe that the only good
a second engine has, is to take you to the scene of the accident. :(

The wedges are plastic and with the two stacked,
and frog support at the pad, I think a heartbar shoe would be redundant,
or at least I am getting the same result.

This horse will be a good personal learn for me about the wedges and jamming theory,
as I started out having to wedge the one foot and not the other.
So after two+ years I am now wedging the other foot which has no jamming at the hair line.
If it develops a jam, I will be impressed but not convinced with the theory.
And as I type, I am thinking to counteract that possibility with even lower heels.

Funny thing, or thought I just had,
This forum is cool, as I type it slows me down to really think things through,
and reflect more deeply on possibilities and probable out comes.
I guess that is one reason/benefit to scientists keeping a journal.

This horse has also created a question for me that I will open another thread on.

reillyshoe wrote:
Are you all sure that a jammed up coronary band is a sign of excess loading? Floating the crack seems to suggest that you think it is a result of excess loading as well.
I am changing my mind, one foot at a time.

As always, I am all ears/eyes.
Bradley SaintJohn

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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 28 Mar 2009 16:52 #21

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That's good, Bradley. I have no problems with the way you shod him or, any protocol ,for that matter. As long as the horse is improving. Rather have an ugly footed sound horse, than a pretty footed cripple.:D
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 28 Mar 2009 21:23 #22

  • Mike Ferrara
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reillyshoe wrote:
Are you all sure that a jammed up coronary band is a sign of excess loading? Floating the crack seems to suggest that you think it is a result of excess loading as well.
I am changing my mind, one foot at a time.

Pat, We need for you to tell us more about what you're seeing with force plates. Didn't you say that you had seen less forced on the jammed heel?
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 29 Mar 2009 04:16 #23

Mike Ferrara wrote:
Pat, We need for you to tell us more about what you're seeing with force plates. Didn't you say that you had seen less forced on the jammed heel?
Mike , Have you ever heard of , secondary- concussion??? What has been your experience ????
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 29 Mar 2009 14:01 #24

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Jake Whitman wrote:
Mike , Have you ever heard of , secondary- concussion??? What is your experience ????

Yes, I've heard of secondary concussion.

Acknowledging that the variabes are many and my samples relatively few I've noticed a couple of things. I hate to generalize but "Shortening" the jammed heel (trying to follow the "sole plane" or even up wall lengths) has resulted in a skewed P3 viewed radiographically. It's resulted in winging (or is it paddling?), interference and quarter cracks. Lowering the non-jammed side (usually the lateral) roughly square to the cannon bone has seems to help with all of the above.

If I understood Pat correctly, his measurements showed the jammed side had less force on it, standing and in motion and raising it increased force. That all seems counter intuitive and my questions are many.

Pending further understanding, I try to not let the jammed side get too low, float the heel just to be safe (though I'm not convinced that it does much) and place some of the load on the frog and sole.

Beyond that, I'm all eyes and ears.
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 29 Mar 2009 14:54 #25

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The jammed side has repeatedly had less force than the opposite side of the foot. The only quarter crack I have measured appears to have very little force caudal and at the point of the crack, which makes me wonder about the origin of the crack. Perhaps this crack was caused by forces other than vertical pressure.
P
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 29 Mar 2009 15:23 #26

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reillyshoe wrote:
The jammed side has repeatedly had less force than the opposite side of the foot. The only quarter crack I have measured appears to have very little force caudal and at the point of the crack, which makes me wonder about the origin of the crack. Perhaps this crack was caused by forces other than vertical pressure.

Obviously force is a vector and you can't get the whole picture by only measuring in one axis.

Does your equipment have a fast enough sampling rate to record short time duration spikes?..as in the concussion (primary or secondary) that Jake mentions?
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 29 Mar 2009 16:12 #27

This is a picture I took during Jim Keith's lecture at Horseshoes Plus 2009 Spring clinic.

A farrier with years of experience, forgot how many years, over 40. He takes a lot of pride in balancing the foot and minimizing the jamming into the hairline.

Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 29 Mar 2009 16:32 #28

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Phil Armitage wrote:
This is a picture I took during Jim Keith's lecture at Horseshoes Plus 2009 Spring clinic.

A farrier with years of experience, forgot how many years, over 40. He takes a lot of pride in balancing the foot and minimizing the jamming into the hairline.

LOL, and no doubt after receiving that priceless piece of info, you'll never again have anything but a 100% cure/avoidance rate in regards to jammed heels and quarter cracks?

Personally, I think I'd still like to see more data along the lines of what Pat's doing.
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 29 Mar 2009 18:08 #29

Mike Ferrara wrote:
LOL, and no doubt after receiving that priceless piece of info, you'll never again have anything but a 100% cure/avoidance rate in regards to jammed heels and quarter cracks?

Personally, I think I'd still like to see more data along the lines of what Pat's doing.

For some reason I do not have jammed heels and quarter cracks and have had great results fixing sheared heels, jammed heels, jamming into the hair line. Have not had to deal with a quarter crack yet.

I am always interested in what others see and experience. Just thought I would add what a veteran shoer sees and has experienced. He also talked about secondary loading. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Quarter Crack Repair 29 Mar 2009 18:34 #30

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Phil Armitage wrote:
For some reason I do not have jammed heels and quarter cracks and have had great results fixing sheared heels, jammed heels, jamming into the hair line. Have not had to deal with a quarter crack yet.

I am always interested in what others see and experience. Just thought I would add what a veteran shoer sees and has experienced. He also talked about secondary loading. :)

That's fine but what you posted didn't really say anything. If a structure breaks or shears, I think it can be assumed that the forces applied to it were too much...an imbalance?

I'm hoping that work like what Pat is doing explains a little more about what's going on with the applied forces and the hoof structure and how it agrees (or not) with the ideas that are floating around now. So far, it seems kind of contradictory.

Whenever this subject comes up I'm reminded of Dr O'Grady's field study where he took unjammed/unsheared heels and tried to cause them to shear and couldn't do it. I've seen some obviously out of "balance" feet that didn't shear and I've also seen sheared heels on horses that radiographically appear "balanced".
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