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TOPIC: So, What ,About those Toe-Clips??

RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 05 Aug 2008 23:56 #136

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Phil Armitage wrote:
I think your missing a very important point and are too closed minded to even think about what others are trying to say.

Phil- what are you gonna say when I do him next time and get more aggressive with the hoof prep and the feet are in better condition. Think outside the box a little. I can think of plenty of different shoes w/toe clip that will improve these feet. Can you think of any?
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:24 #137

Eric Russell wrote:
Phil- what are you gonna say when I do him next time and get more aggressive with the hoof prep and the feet are in better condition. Think outside the box a little. I can think of plenty of different shoes w/toe clip that will improve these feet. Can you think of any?

Regardless of what is going on in the feet you can give the horse the advantage of correct biomechanics before he walks off the matts. Sure after you were done there is better biomechanics however in a short period of time that long toe/underrun heels foot will be out of balance. You want to think out of the box, why not use aluminum so as the foot grows the toe wears. :) I can get those feet to look pretty, but pretty is not what I am talking about here.
Phil Armitage, CF
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:31 #138

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Regardless of what is going on in the feet you can give the horse the advantage of correct biomechanics before he walks off the matts.

What is correct biomechanics? For all you know this horse swims for a living!
Sure after you were done there is better biomechanics however in a short period of time that long toe/underrun heels foot will be out of balance.

What is better biomechanics? The foot will be out of balance, so its not out of balance right now?
You want to think out of the box, why not use aluminum so as the foot grows the toe wears.

Does steel not wear in your neck of the woods?
I can get those feet to look pretty, but pretty is not what I am talking about here.

I doubt anybody knows what your talking about here, yourself included! :)
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:33 #139

Eric Russell wrote:
I can think of plenty of different shoes w/toe clip that will improve these feet. Can you think of any?


To answer your question, yes I can think of a few ways to improve the mechanics in that foot with the use of a toe clip. Rolled toe, rockered toe or combination of both rolled and rockered toe.

What is the advatage of a toe clip? Why is a toe clip better than useing side clips?
Phil Armitage, CF
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:39 #140

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Phil Armitage wrote:
To answer your question, yes I can think of a few ways to improve the mechanics in that foot with the use of a toe clip. Rolled toe, rockered toe or combination of both rolled and rockered toe.

How about a wider web?
What is the advatage of a toe clip? Why is a toe clip better than useing side clips?

Fitting toe clips helps your shoe fitting ability. It's pretty easy to hide things with side clips.
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:40 #141

I am assumeing Bowker, Ovyneck and Ducket know what they are talking about when they defined proper mechanics. Not to mention hundreds of other successfull farriers trimming and shoeing for balance everyday.

What I mean by pretty is what we do everyday to fool the eye of the horse owner into thinking we properly shod the horse. If it looks bad some assume it is bad shoeing without even picking up the foot and seeing if the horse is shod properly. How many times have you disguised a set back shoe, sanded the foot and applied a sealant just to keep an account. The finish job does not affect balance. :) Some of us get beyond pretty and have proven to our clients we can keep a sound horse sound and fix a majority of lame horses. :)
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:41 #142

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If rocker to the first nail holes it would have been a little better and still could've used the toe clip.
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:41 #143

Eric thank you for helping warm up for the 15th. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:43 #144

PerformanceHorseshoeing wrote:
If rocker to the first nail holes it would have been a little better and still could've used the toe clip.

What is a rocker to? Is it to rocker or not to rocker, that is the question? :)
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:46 #145

Eric Russell wrote:

Fitting toe clips helps your shoe fitting ability. It's pretty easy to hide things with side clips.

Why do you assume farriers are hiding things by using side clips. I think it is easy to perimeter fit. Get the shoe red hot, smack both branches and close up the shoe, walla you have a nice perimeter fit. Mapping out the foot and fitting for proper breakover is an art and a science requiring a lot of skill.
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:49 #146

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Not to mention hundreds of other successfull farriers trimming and shoeing for balance everyday.

Such as gaited shoers?
What I mean by pretty is what we do everyday to fool the eye of the horse owner into thinking we properly shod the horse.

I always seem to have a hard time making a job look good if the shoe didn't fit.
If it looks bad some assume it is bad shoeing without even picking up the foot and seeing if the horse is shod properly.

If it looks bad, it usually is bad.
How many times have you disguised a set back shoe, sanded the foot and applied a sealant just to keep an account.

I'm not sure I've ever needed to do this. If I set a shoe back, why would I try to disguise it?
The finish job does not affect balance.

Don't make excuses Phil!
Some of us get beyond pretty and have proven to our clients we can keep a sound horse sound and fix a majority of lame horses.

And some of us can do that and make it look pretty.
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:49 #147

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Eric thank you for helping warm up for the 15th. :)

Whats on the 15th?
What is a rocker to? Is it to rocker or not to rocker, that is the question?

I meant rockered toe. The heat here has fried my brain.:)
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:50 #148

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Eric Russell wrote:

Why do you assume farriers are hiding things by using side clips. I think it is easy to perimeter fit. Get the shoe red hot, smack both branches and close up the shoe, walla you have a nice perimeter fit. Mapping out the foot and fitting for proper breakover is an art and a science requiring a lot of skill.

That's it Phil! Sign off and get to bed. The more you write, the ****er we're all getting tonight!
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 01:55 #149

PerformanceHorseshoeing wrote:
Whats on the 15th?

Craig Trnka and I will be comparing shoeing styles at the University of NH. Craig will demonstrate the advantages of properly fit toe clip and I will demonstrate the advantages of properly mapping out the foot and give that limb what it needs. After 3 shoeing cycles we will compare shoeing styles and condition of the feet. This will be done on one horse, I will do one foot and Craig will do the other. Should be fun and educational. The only problem I have with this exercise is it focuses too much on looking at the feet and not the whole horse, IMO.
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:So, What ,About those Toe-Clips?? 06 Aug 2008 02:02 #150

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Craig Trnka and I will be comparing shoeing styles at the University of NH. Craig will demonstrate the advantages of properly fit toe clip and I will demonstrate the advantages of properly mapping out the foot and give that limb what it needs. After 3 shoeing cycles we will compare shoeing styles and condition of the feet. This will be done on one horse, I will do one foot and Craig will do the other. Should be fun and educational. The only problem I have with this exercise is it focuses too much on looking at the feet and not the whole horse, IMO.

Contrary to what others think my money's on you. Your foot will be in better shape then the one with the toe clip dug into the dorsal wall. Good luck.
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