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TOPIC: AFA needs volunteers to make your life better

RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 31 Oct 2006 17:29 #16

  • Riddle
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 31 Oct 2006 22:12 #17

  • Gary Hill
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I agree with alot of what Tom suggests! If the AFA wants to lead the Farrier World ,then they at least need more members than they have to represent the working Farriers in the USA. Forge work should be encouraged in a manner to teach young farriers how to work more efficently and be able to fill the perscriptions some vets offer up. Letters are for the individuals personal ego. I know a few that have them but do not shoe day to day to the standard that earned them ? If ya earn them you should shoe to that level or above, everyday everyhorse, I believe? The insurance would be great because of the pure numbers of Farriers paying into it. Funds for disabled Farriers could be set up too because of the numbers. BUT the leadership that has been there apparently could care less about these issues? I really hate clubs and the politics that come with them so I'll stay Independent. Best, Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 03:44 #18

  • beslagsmed
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I was approached by the farrier's union here. Some of the benifits they offer:

Rebate on buying vehicles, fuel, mobile telephone service, internet connections, insurance(business not health as we have a socialized system of health care), buying homepage name,

Services of lawyers, accountants, techs to help setup your homepage, computer programs to help with accounting

They hold clinics and if you go you get paid a so much a day for lost wages, milage, free food.

There were more, but don't have the papers infront of me right now. Just something to think about.

Mikel
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 06:03 #19

  • SlowShoe
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Mikel,
Now thats a darn good start to a list of benefits. Things we could really use. I think the AFA charges you for their clinics even if you are a member, your associations want to pay you to go!
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 13:29 #20

  • jvzieger
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Riddle wrote:
I would put someone or a select few people in charge of creating a comprehensive list to suit the purpose.


Riddle,

You've expounded on some great ideas. Now, comes the issue of staffing such a group of people to do this do-cu-mentation.

Have you any interest in volunteering some time towards this effort? If not, do you know anyone who does?

We are starting to see A LOT of good ideas come out of this request for ideas. Ideas that extend well beyond just simple membership benefits, but good ideas none the less.

Now we just need people to volunteer their time to help organize these ideas, research them and put them into action. :)

As it stands right now, there are only two (to three) active members of the Membership Benefits Committee. We simply do not have the ability to volunteer enough time to do all of this work (combined with our full time practice and other life interests). :eek:
Jim Zieger Farrier
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 13:32 #21

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beslagsmed wrote:
I was approached by the farrier's union here. Some of the benifits they offer:

Rebate on buying vehicles, fuel, mobile telephone service, internet connections, insurance(business not health as we have a socialized system of health care), buying homepage name,

Services of lawyers, accountants, techs to help setup your homepage, computer programs to help with accounting

They hold clinics and if you go you get paid a so much a day for lost wages, milage, free food.

There were more, but don't have the papers infront of me right now. Just something to think about.

Mikel


Mike,

This is a GREAT list of actual benefits. Can you explain a little more about the union?

I'm wondering how it works as in, how do you become a member? Who is membership open to? How much are the dues? Are there minimum requirements of apprenticeship and education? Is there any regulation on the practice of farriery in any of the provinces that Union members practice in?

Thanks for your help,

Jim
Jim Zieger Farrier
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 13:50 #22

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Gary Hill wrote:
Deletia...The insurance would be great because of the pure numbers of Farriers paying into it. Funds for disabled Farriers could be set up too because of the numbers. BUT the leadership that has been there apparently could care less about these issues? I really hate clubs and the politics that come with them so I'll stay Independent. Best, Gary


Gary,

You present some good ideas with some thought to back them up. Then you place blame on "the leadership" by saying that they couldn't care less about these issues, and you also negate any benefits to "clubs" by describing the bad politics they come with.

So, what I'm seeing in you reply is you feel as though a "club" of farriers offers an opportunity to bring benefits to all by having the large group of participants. Presumably, the larger the group, the more benefits could be brought, but you for one do not want to make the group larger as you don't like the politics.

I for one agree with your disdain for politics. So, I personally volunteer my time to get involved in the "governing" of the club, and I try to stay out of politics. I TRY :) to be about truth and accuracy, and uniting disparate individuals.

Your also placing blame on the leadership for not implementing the benefits you think are good, but as I see it, the leadership is making a strong effort (through this post for instance) to compile a list of useful benefits and find a means of implementing them. It seems the leadership is in the midst of doing exactly what you say their not??? :confused:

I believe it is possible to participate in and reap the benefits from a club while refusing to participate in the negative politics associated with said club. Everything in life is a balancing act, and the AFA is no different, but I feel the potential benefits far out weigh the detractors. Will you give consideration to my point of view and consider getting involved while staying "above politics"?
Jim Zieger Farrier
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 14:56 #23

  • Gary Hill
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Jim, after being in the business for 29yrs now I haven't seen where the AFA has really done much differant that in the past? Granted I have been on the outside looking in. The local farriers and iron hangers in my part of the sandpile are so spread out and territorial , you're lucky to get a wave from them when you pass them on the highway. Some that are members have their noses in the air or are so inexperienced, that they feel they are better because they can say they are AFA members. They forget they must represent that fact by doing Quality work on the horses they shoe. Personally, now that I remarried a woman that has a good job and very good benefits, I don't have to work as hard as I used to. That gives me more time to shoe less horses aday but produce better work. I charge more and get it because of the professional approach I employ. I also am a horseman and compete with my horses as does my wife. Everyweekend is on horseback as well as under them. My area has guys that don't even have a forge in their rigs and others don't own or even ride horses. Maybe some may say," so what" but if you are working on Horsemans horses, your horsemanship needs to be as good or better. You want to work for nothing but backyard folks you can bluff your way to the bank. I met a kid at a barrel race last Sunday that has been shoeing for all of 4 yrs and is about 23 yrs old and according to him he has had everykind of rig and seen it all ,so how can anyone stand up to that kind of experience? I don't worry about any of that c r a p anymore and feel as long as the schools dump out "Two Week Wonders" the skill level of farriers of the future is in trouble. I'm 53 now and hope the body and eyes can hold out for another 15 maybe, and I would imagine that at that time the same arguements that are going on today will still be argued then. I'm very sure that there are quite a few good people trying their very best to make AFA the best it can be, but somehow it seems that it shoots it self in the foot? For instance the TV program, why in blue blazes do they put it on a network that only serves a small market area? Ole Ralph, at least has his on satelitte. RFD- doesn't carry him on Direct-TV but I hear Dish does? Cable doesn't get out to me so we use the Satelitte. The AFJ was and still is a very good informative mag that didn't really need to be replaced. Sorry to go on and I need to hit the road, so y'all have a gooden! Best, Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 16:17 #24

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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 17:18 #25

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jvzieger wrote:
Mike,

This is a GREAT list of actual benefits. Can you explain a little more about the union?

I'm wondering how it works as in, how do you become a member? Who is membership open to? How much are the dues? Are there minimum requirements of apprenticeship and education? Is there any regulation on the practice of farriery in any of the provinces that Union members practice in?

Thanks for your help,

Jim

This is the only farriers union in Denmark, it is called DS Håndwærk & Industri. The apprenticeship is 4 years. They (the government) has a new law requiring all farriers to be certified. For all of us who have been working for years as farriers they have a program to get us through to take the test. Starting Monday I will be spending 3 weeks in Copenhagn at KVL, which is the national school. There is located the farrier's program along with the vet program. I will be attending 3 X 3 weeks. At the end of the 9 weeks I will then take a written test and oral test. Following this the examiners will come to my house where I will have to shoe one horse to standard (4 shoes), one horse with a shoe, sole and packing to standard. Then I will have 4 shoes to make: one set of parallel shoes, one shoe with heels, then there will be a draw out of the hat shoe - either a ring shoe, interferance shoe, squaretoed hind shoe, or an eggbar shoe.

All shoes are measured to the millimeter, points being deducted for each millimeter out of standard, I will state the size of nail before I begin, points decucted for out of size holes, improper spacing, creasing must be standard throughout the shoe.

Live shoeing: pull off shoes, evaluate horse, trim, evaluate and determine need, build shoes for need of horse. Fronts with toeclips, hinds with sideclips.

A friend of mine who passed the test this past April said after shoeing his horse, they poured water in the hoof to see if it was a perfect fit to the hoof. He had "water tight" hooves, no leaks.

I am just finding out about the union as I will be completing the testing the first of next year. They also have a web site: www.ds-net.dk

As far as befifits for the AFA, I think all that would be needed is getting out to some of the mobile phone carriers and just ask - all they can say is no. Same with the oil companies. These would be some things that all farrier could really use. Even if I am living in Denmark, I still am a Idahoen and care what happens on that side of the pond.
Mikel.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 19:42 #26

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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 02 Nov 2006 21:05 #27

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RE:AFA needs volunteers to make your life better 03 Nov 2006 00:13 #28

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Riddle wrote:
For members, have a place on the AFA website where they can submit x-rays for analysis. Possibly, have a respected Vet. and a couple of CJF's designated for specific periods of time to give anylysis and possible shoeing protocol. I believe it would be a nice venue, if you could get them to commit, to use people who have gained the "The****utic Endorsement" from the AFA.

I know some farriers do not have the benefit of working with a good equine or lameness Vet. I believe this could be very helpful. How much it would be used is hard to say. It sure would be appreciated by those who had the need, and always a good resource for those who may just want a second opinion...

Riddle wrote:
...Another idea. Have an annual drawing (lottery) for say, 5 clinician days. Meaning, recognized clinicians...

Riddle,

You have some really good ideas, and I will be sure to propose some of them when we sift through all the ideas and develop some plans.

I also appreciate your generous offer of 20 hours per week dedication to a project you might get involved with.

As to what you said about guaranteeing that the program won't get nixed by some future administration of the AFA... I don't know what to say there. I'm in the same boat, I may make all this effort and find that someone new gets elected who doesn't think benefits are a priority and the next thing you know, the membership benefits committee becomes low on the priority list. Right now, with the current administration, membership benefits are a high priority, as is the fulfillment of our mission.

I think that the best response I can offer you here is for you to get involved, and stay involved. If you don't like how things are going, you can effect change by participating in the decision making process. At the very least, participate in a local chapter that has a seat on the board so that your views can be expressed.

Again, I would like to say than you for your ideas, and I again extend an invitation for you to participate in researching and bringing to fruition any/all of the ideas you've shared.

The best way we can guarantee that a project such as this will not get squashed is to research it thoroughly, plan it well, present it well, be sure it's efficient, cost effective and manageable and make it of great value to the members. If it meets those criteria, it is unlikely that anyone will be able to (or want to) stop it.
Jim Zieger Farrier
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