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TOPIC: Another Sort of Career Question

Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 13:01 #1

I am trying to finish my dissertation on horses in ancient Greece, and was hoping I could ask a few questions of all you "real" horse professionals.

If this is inappropriate or tedious, please accept my apologies in advance and delete.

1) Do you know/respect the name of Xenophon?
a. Where/when did you first encounter him?
2) Is the story of Alexander the Great taming Boukephalas familiar?
b. What do you think of it?

Thank you very much for any and all answers in advance.

(It's looking like my journey to farrier school will be postponed at least another year; after 6 year of work, by gum I will walk out of this with a Ph.D.)
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 13:30 #2

  • Gary_Miller
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seacharles]I am trying to finish my dissertation on horses in ancient Greece, and was hoping I could ask a few questions of all you "real" horse professionals.

If this is inappropriate or tedious, please accept my apologies in advance and delete.

1) Do you know/respect the name of Xenophon?
a. Where/when did you first encounter him?
2) Is the story of Alexander the Great taming Boukephalas familiar?
b. What do you think of it?

Thank you very much for any and all answers in advance. [/QUOTE]
Never studied musch Greek methology so I can't help you here.

seacharles wrote:
(It's looking like my journey to farrier school will be postponed at least another year wrote:
will[/B] walk out of this with a Ph.D.)
A Ph.D. in what?


Gary
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 19:59 #3

  • vthorseshoe
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don't remember much greek history so looked up your characters.

Xenophon was cited as being the first horse whisper.
Also wrote a book, (treaties0 on horse care and horsemanship. Written in c. 35o BC it was perhaps one of the first written on horsemanship in the western hemisphere.
One of his first detailings was "principles of drassage"
his book had 12 chapters on horse care.

Boukephala was the name of a town in India so name by Alexander the Great in honor of his favorite horse, "bucephalus" who died and was buried there.

I think any history is interesting along with an incite into the past.

i find it interesting that when you get to the very basics, in most situations little has changed.
When you get into specifics we have come a long way.

I found it fun and interesting taking the time to look up these subjects. Thanks for the post
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 20:31 #4

  • Rancho JD
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this xenophon cat seemed highly touted as enlightened by his peers and minions back in the days when horses were vehicles and expendable so i can respect his concern and understanding for the animal. i've also noticed there are shining examples of horsemanship scattered all around, sometimes subtle and not always the most famous as is and has probably been the case in every horse culture since the first flat feet looped a twine around a horses neck.

i think i first saw his name scratched on a rock tablet in the Athens weekly classifieds drummin up business for training, clinics and such
Hit on 16 stand on 17 and split those aces, merry christmas!
'panhandler' Reno, Nevada.
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 20:47 #5

Gary_Miller wrote:
Never studied musch Greek methology so I can't help you here.


A Ph.D. in what?


Gary

Gary it is not myth, it is history, non-fiction. Actuall people times and places. :D
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 20:55 #6

seacharles]I am trying to finish my dissertation on horses in ancient Greece, and was hoping I could ask a few questions of all you "real" horse professionals.

If this is inappropriate or tedious, please accept my apologies in advance and delete.

1) Do you know/respect the name of Xenophon?
a. Where/when did you first encounter him?
2) Is the story of Alexander the Great taming Boukephalas familiar?
b. What do you think of it?

Thank you very much for any and all answers in advance.

(It's looking like my journey to farrier school will be postponed at least another year wrote:
will[/B] walk out of this with a Ph.D.)

First heard of Xenophon from the barefooters on this forum. Don't know if I respect or disrespect the guy. Don't even know if he was a guy, could be a gal for all I know. Bet he did not shoe many horses like we do today. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 22:36 #7

  • Rick Burten
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seacharles]
1) Do you know/respect the name of Xenophon?[/quote]
Yes/ Perhaps.
a. Where/when did you first encounter him?
As a child I carried water to his horses and eventually became one of his assistant trainers. Back then, horse training and conditioning was done au natural, and thus became known as Xenophobic natural training. :).

I was also his ghost writer when he penned his personal autobiography and his treatsies on horse care.

I was so enthralled by his presence, that after coming under his spell, I too became xenophobic. :eek: wrote:
2) Is the story of Alexander the Great taming Boukephalas familiar?
b. What do you think of it?
Sure. He was the Tom Dorrance/Ray Hunt/Richard Shrake/John Lyons/Pat Parrelli all rolled up into one human being, of his day. I think it just further proves the adage that "there is nothing new under the sun".

(It's looking like my journey to farrier school will be postponed at least another year; after 6 year of work, by gum I will walk out of this with a Ph.D.)
I myself am proud to say that I have two PHDs.
I attained my first one while cleaning stalls as a lad. The boss kept saying, "Burten, that manure has to be Piled Higher and Deeper.
I attained my second one while working on a dude ranch. After only a short apprenticeship, I became a fully certified Post Hole Digger. :)

Hope your journey remains both safe and fulfilling.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 22:40 #8

  • cowboy_bc
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Hi all,

Phil

Xenophon goes back to 350BC and and his writings seem to be all commen sense and are applicable today. If Xenophon had been able to shoe his horses he likely would have so I really don't know why those wiley bare footer refer to him so much. Anyway who knows maybe in 2300 years if there are still commen sense horse people they may be reading about Tom or Rick.

Kevin
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if i was smart enought to spell properly I probably wouldnt be shoeing friggen horses for a living ay. Red Amor

If it don’t seem like it’s worth the effort it probably...
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 22:44 #9

  • Rick Burten
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cowboy_bc wrote:
Anyway who knows maybe in 2300 years if there are still commen sense horse people they may be reading about Tom or Rick.
Thanks for the kind words Kevin, but truth be known if they are reading about me in another 2300 years, it will be proof that crime does pay. :)
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 27 Sep 2006 22:45 #10

Kevin they might be wondering what Cowboy BC means. :)

Cowboys before Christ. :p
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 28 Sep 2006 01:31 #11

  • Gary_Miller
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Gary it is not myth, it is history, non-fiction. Actuall people times and places. :D
Never studied much greek history ether. :eek:


Gary
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 28 Sep 2006 02:10 #12

Gary_Miller wrote:
Never studied much greek history ether. :eek:


Gary

Me either. LOL
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 28 Sep 2006 11:52 #13

Wow, thank you all for so many replies.

The Ph.D. is in Classics (i.e. Ancient Greek and Roman history/literature/culture). So far as I know the mid-Roman Empire gives us the first surviving examples of horseshoes, but given that you can recycle all the materials it's hardly surprising not to find earlier examples.

Xenophon was the real-deal, being an Athenian cavalry commander; his treatises, ("On Horsemanship" is the most interesting to me, but there's also "The Cavalry Commander") are short (20-30 pages) and so sensible and straightforward. It gives me sort of a shock to read them, because they still feel so modern and make me feel connected to something so old (2,300 years old as bc_cowboy says). They're available in English translation in the Penguin edition titled Hiero the Tyrant and Other Treatises.

Thanks again for all the replies, and I would welcome more.
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 28 Sep 2006 12:50 #14

  • George Geist
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Although is true about Roman horseshoes I believe there were even earlier examples found in both China and Ireland. The Celts were believed to be shoeing horses before Rome ever came around. They were also known as some of the earliest and best known ironworkers.

Genesis tells us about Tubal-Cain although no mention of horseshoeing is made there.

Unfortunately a large part of our history has been lost due to the burning of the library at Alexandria. Research is proving however that this trade is much older than previously believed.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:Another Sort of Career Question 04 Oct 2006 02:42 #15

  • calshoer
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Since Im half Greek (and only second generation American in that half ) I had to get an A in Greek mythology in high school or my dad would have been mortified.But it has bee na very LONG time since then. Like 35 years.
1) Do you know/respect the name of Xenophon?
Yep,and ditto what everyone else here says.
a. Where/when did you first encounter him?
High school.
2) Is the story of Alexander the Great taming Boukephalas familiar?
Familiar names but its been *so* long since high school that I cant remember the details of the taming.
b. What do you think of it?
Since I can't remember the details, I cant think much about it..... :rolleyes:
Patty
Patty Stiller CNBF,CLS
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