make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Sunday September 25, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Riding With Jaye

RE:Riding With Jaye 24 Jul 2006 13:22 #316

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Phil Armitage in gray, deletia

The ones that I have run across that do not tie don't tie for various reasons and most of the time this issue can be resolved without putting the horse in a high risk for injury.

In my experience, hanging a horse on a truck innertube does not entail significant risk. I've seen several lose a little hide in the process, but nothing to write home about.

When I train or work with a horse I see an 8 year old kid, some are cocky and think there bad, some are scared, some are confused.

Anthropomorphic twaddle. When I fool with a horse, I see a horse with habits I may, or may not, find desirable.

Every horse I have owned understood these rules and when in our care were 100% safe to be around and ride.

I can't say the same. Over the years, most of my practice broncs and several of the using horses had to be sidelined to trim and some of the practice horses could buck good enough to win something on when they were fresh. On the other hand, I've never had a horse on the place that wasn't broke to tie, and that includes the practice horses.

By the way Tom, I don't use a round pen, flags or guru. Natural Horsemanship is not meant for horses it is meant for people.

I've never called myself a horseman and there's nothing "natural" about the interaction of humans and horses. As I see it, all horse training boils down to this simple proposition: Either you dominate the horse, or the horse dominates you. There ain't a helluva lot of middle ground.

Your method of teaching a horse how to tie probably works well under your supervision, however some of the green horns I have met would get killed or kill the horse trying this. Something to keep in mind.


Anyone who can read and follow directions doesn't need my supervision to break a horse to tie while keeping them out of harm's way. As my grandkids are fond of saying, "It ain't rocket science." :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 24 Jul 2006 18:45 #317

Hi Tom I agree with most of the things you said about horsemanship, dominance is the bottom line I am just saying can be achieved with a combination of gaining trust and respect (I put respect at the top). The more I have learned about Natural Horsemanship the more I realised how much of the system is designed for marketing and safety (liablility). The stuff I have seen and read about is attempting to teach people the things you already know. I do not think people with good horsemanship differ too much, no fear and gain dominance. The reason I use the 8 year old kid analogy is because it is very simalar except for a few hundred pounds. Considering the horses nature of being fearfull and looking for leadership, it only makes sense to be carefull how you go about gaining dominance. Kids like a confident leaders who are not threatning that enforce rules in a respectfull and clear way, it gives them security and a safe place. This can eliminate a lot of bad behavoir, works on kids and horses. Don't get me wrong, I am not one who condones being a wimp and giveing in to things. Seen a lot of troubled kids because of either way, parents being too soft and parents being too hard, either way kids feel like people don't give a ****, trust and respect disappears.

Broncs are another story, of course you don't want to get all the fight out of them, after all you can't win on a dead head that is desensatised to even a burr in it's ass. :)

Had an opportunity once to trim a couple hundred of them in Vermont, thought about it for about 2 minutes saw $$$ then thought about my health that is all it took.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 24 Jul 2006 20:16 #318

  • Gary Hill
  • Gary Hill's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5298
  • Thank you received: 6
  • Karma: 4
Phil, you are almost getting it! Kids and horses are alot alike and the main thing they need most is what I was trying to express to George. Get ready its a four letter word! TIME! And it must be time well spent! Animals need the leader and the guy at the end of the lead ,darn well better be it, but most folks are a tad bit too tenderhearted ! If you have to use clickers like the BUA folks do you ain't much of a horseman in my neighborhood. That term is also related to an endangered species nowdays. More horseowners and not enough Horsemen! Correction on a bronc or puke is looked upon by the Bunny Hugger crowd that everyone has to look over their shoulders now days before they attempt to correct a problem. They might go to jail for the correction or have a large fine thrown at them! It is nothing more than a fact of life that animals will hurt people, sometimes accidently and other times they darn well know what they are doing and take aim because they know they will not be corrected, for what they do! Best, Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 24 Jul 2006 20:29 #319

Trust me Gary I get it, it is nice to see another man have a good understanding. I use to be too hard and had no clue what positive reinforcement and praise meant. Made a lot of mistakes and created a lot of problems because I did not understand horses. It is difficult to know what people are thinking or what they mean on a discussion forum. I know horses can be dangerous, however I also know a lot of problem horses were made dangerous by someone being too hard. When I start training a new horse, I expect over reaction and it can appear to be an abusive situation to the untrained eye, so I preffer to work alone. Many of the young riders I shoe for are girls in there teens, they can get somewhere with a horse by gaining trust, however show the horse who is boss if needed. I have seen to many men totaly loose it and create a dangerous situation, total ignorance if you ask me.

Totaly disagree with clicker training, feeding by hand and pampering a horse. In my world things are black and white, clear no nagging and I try to get the horse to relax. It is amazeing how far you can get when stress and fear is gone. :) It can actually be fun and very rewarding.

My wife and I use to run a 4H Horse club did a lot of showing and over night projects. We made it fun, productive and a learning experience. Use to tick me off when a parent who had no clue would jump in and make it stressfull for us and the kids, then it became no fun and no learning. We ended up with a group who warned the parents to stay out of it or they would have to go home. Then we got burned out, our girls got older and tired of it so we do our owne thing now.

Thanks for the response. This is an issue very near and dear to my heart.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 24 Jul 2006 21:20 #320

  • Jaye Perry
  • Jaye Perry's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5653
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Totaly disagree with clicker training, feeding by hand and pampering a horse. ........
I have a customer who feeds her young horses into submission. These horses are so fat they are huffing and puffing after the first lap around. They submitt half way through the second .:D
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 24 Jul 2006 21:30 #321

  • Gary Hill
  • Gary Hill's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5298
  • Thank you received: 6
  • Karma: 4
Last week, a lady at an Elephant Rescue type place in Tenn was killed by an elephant there ,that they do the Bunny Hugger hands off type treatment and I have tried to paste and copy the article? IF anyone is interested in how all animals and people are affected by lack of control visit my old Elephant Boss's web site. These folks remind me of the BUA people and of course the dear folks at P eople E at T astie A nimals! Here's the web site- www.bucklesw.blogspot.com My other home other than this site! Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 24 Jul 2006 21:40 #322

  • Gary Hill
  • Gary Hill's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5298
  • Thank you received: 6
  • Karma: 4
I might add that if ya like to see lots of old time Teamsters and some great old Circus wagons being pulled by them or just lots of horses then some of the links will take you back to when you were a kid or wish you still one! Best and ENJOY! Gary
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 25 Jul 2006 01:00 #323

Gary Hill wrote:
Last week, a lady at an Elephant Rescue type place in Tenn was killed by an elephant there ,that they do the Bunny Hugger hands off type treatment and I have tried to paste and copy the article? IF anyone is interested in how all animals and people are affected by lack of control visit my old Elephant Boss's web site. These folks remind me of the BUA people and of course the dear folks at P eople E at T astie A nimals! Here's the web site- www.bucklesw.blogspot.com My other home other than this site! Gary

Read the article and the posts. Definately see the points made on the forum. Did not realise what a problem these activists can be. Very sad this woman lost her life, sounds like it could have been prevented.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 25 Jul 2006 12:51 #324

Jaye,

Imagine this, I actually have a couple of free days coming up in August.

Any chance your staying local and shoeing in the ATL area, and need a floor sweeper?

Dianne
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 25 Jul 2006 20:03 #325

  • Jaye Perry
  • Jaye Perry's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5653
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Dianne Lemmon wrote:
Jaye,
Imagine this, I actually have a couple of free days coming up in August.
Any chance your staying local and shoeing in the ATL area, and need a floor sweeper?
Dianne

Sure send me a PM with some dates. BTW, you will have to show me how to install a coffe maker in my truck like the one you have.:D
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 25 Jul 2006 23:49 #326

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Actually Phil would lose, for exactly the reasons mentioned. As I recall, the indictments in the Chronicle and American-Statesman allege Wal-Mart executives had prior knowledge of their contractors' hiring practices and attempts to cir***vent US laws regarding the hiring of illegal immigrants.
You're missing the subtle technical difference. Phil said 'employees' and technically, those contractors and their agents were never 'employees' of Wal-Mart.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
ROTFLMAO! That's a mighty short term view from a CPA. :)

All right, now I have to call you on that one. You can't have it both ways. In a prior message you posted on 04-12-2006 at 07:50 PM, you said the following:
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
No ma'am, it's about testing the efficacy of shoes vs. barefooted in the only timeframe that means anything: the present.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
I don't give a rat's patootie about anyone's claims of how things will be at some time in the future, I'm interested in the here and now.
Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
ROTFLMAO! Sound is as sound does in the present, not about anyone's BUA speculation about how the horse will do in the future.

So which way is it? Do you care about immediate consequences that can be directly attributed to an event or do you care about long term results?

Ya me imagino como vas a responder, pero por que no me entretienes con una respuesta en tus propias palabras?
Cordell Rogers
CPA, MAcc, not yet CF
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 26 Jul 2006 01:40 #327

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
cordell_rogers in gray, my old stuff in brown, deletia

As I recall, the indictments in the Chronicle and American-Statesman allege Wal-Mart executives had prior knowledge of their contractors' hiring practices and attempts to circúmvent US laws regarding the hiring of illegal immigrants.

You're missing the subtle technical difference. Phil said 'employees' and technically, those contractors and their agents were never 'employees' of Wal-Mart.

Apparently the government failed to make the same distinction, they went after both Wally World's management and the outfit hiring illegals. Evidently, it's technically against the law for any business to KNOWINGLY employ illegal immigrants or allow illegals to perform services for a business via an agent - which appears to be the salient point.

Re: Cordell loves Wally World!

ROTFLMAO! That's a mighty short term view from a CPA.

All right, now I have to call you on that one. You can't have it both ways. In a prior message you posted on 04-12-2006 at 07:50 PM, you said the following:

No ma'am, it's about testing the efficacy of shoes vs. barefooted in the only timeframe that means anything: the present.

I don't give a rat's patootie about anyone's claims of how things will be at some time in the future, I'm interested in the here and now.

ROTFLMAO! Sound is as sound does in the present, not about anyone's BUA speculation about how the horse will do in the future.


So which way is it? Do you care about immediate consequences that can be directly attributed to an event or do you care about long term results?


While I appreciate the accurate quotes, do you really think you can draw a logical analogy between the soundness of a single horse in the present and speculation about its future soundness with Wally World's economic impact on the US economy, now and later? That's a helluva stretch, even for a CPA. Hint: Wally World's economic impact affects the whole barn. :)

Ya me imagino como vas a responder, pero por que no me entretienes con una respuesta en tus propias palabras?

Vivo a entretenerle.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 26 Jul 2006 10:45 #328

Tom, looks like Wally World and our governments is much like Farriers and licenseing. You have to ask yourself, why is the government picking on Wally World? As we pointed out illegals are hired all the time it is pretty much common practice. The whole city of Boston Ma, or how about NY city. Texas, California and so on. It is the governments fault there is a problem in the first place. Why can't these illegals become naturalised citizens the way imagrants from other countrys do it. Why don't they learn how to speak english, it would help them in the long run. Our government has screwed up, not Wally World. Actually politicians "people" we vote in have screwed up, got to ask yourself why a man or woman wants to dedicate there lives to politics instead of working for a liveing?

Wether you like it or not, our country has let these people in, they have familys to feed and need work. At least they are working for the food on there table and roof over there head. What do you suggest we do? It is a very big problem that cannot be resolved over night. So if the government makes it illegal to hire these people do they plan on feeding them, provideing medical attention. At least the American Indian help us illegals learn how to survive. Talking about humain beings here not animals.

So your saying Wally World is bad because why?
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 26 Jul 2006 14:53 #329

  • Tom Stovall CJF
  • Tom Stovall CJF's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3882
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Phil Armitage in gray

Tom, looks like Wally World and our governments is much like Farriers and licenseing. You have to ask yourself, why is the government picking on Wally World?

Since when did enforcing the law become "picking on" somebody? If I write somebody a hot check and get arrested for it, can I use the "the government's picking on me" defense with any hope of success?

As we pointed out illegals are hired all the time it is pretty much common practice. The whole city of Boston Ma, or how about NY city. Texas, California and so on.

Lemme see if I have this straight: You're trying to argue that because the practice of businesses' illegally hiring illegal immigrants is commonplace, the practice is somehow justified? Do two illegals make a legal?

It is the governments fault there is a problem in the first place.

On this we can agree. If the government had not engaged in selective enforcement of our immigration laws at the behest of multinationals and ethnic voting blocs, the problem would not exist.

Why can't these illegals become naturalised citizens

Do you really want to reward someone for entering this country illegally?

the way imagrants from other countrys do it.

Want to guess what happens to convicted illegal immigrants in most of Latin America?

Why don't they learn how to speak english, it would help them in the long run.


The ability to speak English is not a litmus test. Spanish is still the language of the playground in much of the Sunbelt.

Our government has screwed up, not Wally World.


The "screw up" was in the government's failure to enforce existing laws and the idiocy of granting citizenship to any illegal with an old electric bill a few years back. That said, Wal Mart is but one of many multinationals that routinely engage in the de facto hiring of illegal immigrants because doing so is more profitable than hiring citizens.

Actually politicians "people" we vote in have screwed up, got to ask yourself why a man or woman wants to dedicate there lives to politics instead of working for a liveing?

I've often said that anyone who spends more on getting hired than the job will pay is a crook at heart.

Wether you like it or not, our country has let these people in, they have familys to feed and need work.

Correction: These folks entered the country illegally, nobody "let" them in and multinational avarice leading to illegal hiring practices is the primary factor in illegals' wanting to enter this country.

At least they are working for the food on there table and roof over there head.

We have able bodied citizens on welfare and living under bridges. Did you ever stop to think about this: Every illegal immigrant working in the USA has taken the job of an American worker! Spare me any of the silly arguments about Americans not wanting to do this or that job, they are inherently specious.

What do you suggest we do? It is a very big problem that cannot be resolved over night. So if the government makes it illegal to hire these people do they plan on feeding them, provideing medical attention.

I suggest we enforce the laws on the books at every level, from local to national. Since our government neither feeds the citizenry nor provides the citizenry with health care, why would anyone concerned with our national interest be concerned with the feeding and health care of non-citizens?

At least the American Indian help us illegals learn how to survive. Talking about humain beings here not animals.

Nation states are created and sustained by force of might without due process, a means no longer politically correct in Western Europe, the USA and Canada, but still existent throughout much of the rest of the world, including Mexico.

So your saying Wally World is bad because why?

Wal Mart is but one of many stateless multinational corporations that exist solely to enrich their stockholders without consideration of our national interest. Personally, I don't give a damn about Wally World's stockholders ('cept maybe Jaye), but I'm deeply concerned about my country's national economic interests - and right now, those interests ain't looking too good.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
The topic has been locked.

RE:Riding With Jaye 26 Jul 2006 17:51 #330

Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
We have able bodied citizens on welfare and living under bridges. Did you ever stop to think about this: Every illegal immigrant working in the USA has taken the job of an American worker! Spare me any of the silly arguments about Americans not wanting to do this or that job, they are inherently specious.
Your statement assumes that there are a finite number of jobs. I believe that there are countless ways that humans can be productive. The universe doesn't have a quota for human productivity. If that were the case, anytime somebody did something productive, it would automatically decrease the production of another person. There is no limit on success - somebody else's success does not mean I will be less successful. I prefer a more synergistic view of the world.
Cordell Rogers
CPA, MAcc, not yet CF
The topic has been locked.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • clearhillsfarrier birthday is today
  • Creager7850 birthday is today
  • lindar131 birthday is today
  • Dennis Peveto birthday is in 1 day
  • ironmanhorseshoeing birthday is in 1 day
  • Robyn Beane birthday is in 1 day
  • vanderblij birthday is in 1 day
  • Viking farrier birthday is in 1 day
  • irideazippo birthday is in 2 days
  • McCutcheon969 birthday is in 2 days
  • RidingGrace birthday is in 2 days
Time to create page: 0.241 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.