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TOPIC: Apprenticeships

RE:Apprenticeships 11 Feb 2005 11:10 #46

  • Mike Ferrara
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mikes_horseshoeing wrote:
I don't know but this might be it by. some legislators? they are trying to get any horse related activity shoeing,dental,message,so forth to be supervised by a vet. that means a vet has to be present in order for you to do what ever it is you want to do with that horse??

It sounds like it would make things very expensive for the horse owner. If a vet had to be on site for shoeing scheduling would be pretty tough. Here, for instance, we can't hardly get a vet to come out at all. With those scheduling roadblocks I'd get about three horses done a week. Sounds like we'd have to charge about $1000 each (excluding vet fee of course). It would be pretty hard to keep a horse on any kind of a schedule too. It sounds like horse owners better do something.

Or maybe they intend that all farriers be vets themselves. That would work well. LOL What would you have to charge to shoe a horse when you can get $150 to pull up in the drive and spend 3 minutes prescribing bute and stall rest. People would be paying surgery rates to get a horse shod.

It sounds too ****** to even pay attention to to me. If they think it's a good idea then let em do it. Whatever hoops I have to jump through I'll charge for and if they think the vets are going to start shoeing all the horses I can't wait to see it.
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RE:Apprenticeships 11 Feb 2005 11:28 #47

  • Mike Ferrara
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Besides, this isn't anywhere near the most rediculous thing I've seen government do.

Without going into too much detail I have a family member in the hospital. Apparantly privacy laws prevent the hospital or doctors from telling me what's going on but it looks like other laws may make me financially responsible. What I have so far is a bunch of doctors and a hospital who can do anything they want (or nothing at all) and send me the bill. Just the time I've spent with attourneys trying to figure out what they can do and what I can do is nothing to sneeze at. So far I haven't found a good way to look out for the ill family member or the financial well being of the rest of the family. If they can do this to people who gives a **** what they do with horses...I might have to eat mine. Hey! Will I need a vets supervision for that or is that only if I shoe em first?
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RE:Apprenticeships 11 Feb 2005 13:58 #48

Relax guys,
We all know our omnipotent and omniscient Govenrment knows whats best for all of us. They know what we should eat, drink and drive, They know how we should spend our money, so they tax us to protect us from our own ignorance. We are incapable of making important decisions regarding health care, so breastworks of protocol are established to help us. How could we as simple, uneducated 'hossshers' possibly care for the equine foot? We all need supervision... ;) Right wing zealots such as Ronaldus Maximus Reagan, Rush Limbaugh and George W. Bush have fooled us helpless plebians into thinking we can and should be responsible for ourselves, our actions and welfare. They have tricked us into thinking education, dedication and ability lead to success. Those poor horses have suffered without a Politboro, I mean Federal Oversight Commision of Shoers(FOCS) to govern horseshoeing! I have only one hope, that Hillary Roddam Clinton can usurp the Right and take the White house in '08!
I already have a bumper sticker that says "Run Hillary, Run!": It is on the FRONT bumper of my truck! :D

Tongue firmly in cheek,
Jason Maki member of the NRA and GOP since 1990

P.S. The Hillary joke was told to me by Andrew Ellsbree at a certification in '01. Its to good for me to take credit for...
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:Apprenticeships 18 Feb 2005 16:38 #49

  • Ben-Sturman
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I'm from AZ and have not heard of the law being passed yet. We do have some vets here (Tucson) putting pressure on some equine dentists and chiropractors(second hand news, no proof). I have heard that from a few customers who have lost thier chosen professional and were told the reason by that person as they left town. So take that with a grain of salt. But nobody has said a word or written to all the farriers telling us we have to work with vets or that this had been passed as a law. I can tell you that the vets I know that work with horses, 8 to 10, want nothing to do with shoeing, trimming, or even cleaning horses feet if they don't have to. Most want to show up for sedation when necessary, give the shot, shoot the Bull with me for a few minutes, collect thier money, and say see ya next time. They don't even want to see the work cause they say it makes thier back hurt to watch. :eek: :D

I will now be taking a much closer look into this here in AZ and seeing if this is really true. I don't forsee a huge problem even if it has been passed because as I said before the vets don't want to do the work and the customers sure as hell won't wait or pay the extra expense, at least not most of the one's I know.

My only other question is who is going to police this, do we get animals cops from animal planet to check on us now :D

I will post any findings I can and would appreciate any info from any one else about this.

Ben
Ben Sturman

They said, "Be a horseshoer, it's the only job you will ever get a KICK out of!" :D
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RE:Apprenticeships 18 Feb 2005 19:54 #50

Ben,
As long as its the blonde lady from NY, I would not care--she's FIESTY! :D
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:Apprenticeships 18 Feb 2005 23:25 #51

  • cowboy_bc
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Hi all,

I live in Canada and we don't have any silly laws or ****** bureaucrats here. It seems to me that if a Vet has to supervise a farriers work, then the vet should demonstrate by doing a couple feet to show the farrier how that particular horse should be properly shod.
Kevin Joseph Wheeler

Always strive to be the person your dog thinks you are.

if i was smart enought to spell properly I probably wouldnt be shoeing friggen horses for a living ay. Red Amor

If it don’t seem like it’s worth the effort it probably...
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RE:Apprenticeships 18 Feb 2005 23:43 #52

  • Rick Burten
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Well, here in Illinois, for anyone other than the horse owner to perform equine dentistry, a veterinarian must be present. So far the legislators have not seen it worthwhile to extend this edict to other modalities, farriery included, but there is a huge push to require ESMTs, and others(right now excluding farriers) to only be able to practice under the auspices of a licensed veterinarian.

With the state in dire financial straits, and a doofus for Gov., I don't doubt that any and every avenue to increase state revenues will be examined under a microscope. As soon as they figure out a way to make more money from us working folks, its gonna be 'Johnny, bar the door' time.

Rick
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In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Apprenticeships 19 Feb 2005 00:00 #53

  • cowboy_bc
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Rick,

So what are you saying our former Prime Minister is now your Governor. You are in trouble.
Kevin Joseph Wheeler

Always strive to be the person your dog thinks you are.

if i was smart enought to spell properly I probably wouldnt be shoeing friggen horses for a living ay. Red Amor

If it don’t seem like it’s worth the effort it probably...
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RE:Apprenticeships 20 Feb 2005 23:32 #54

  • Bill Adams
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What's going to happen is that officious do-gooders and tax hungry bureaucrats will try to restrict our profesion as they do all the others. One day you will wake to find the failed two week wonder or the radical barefooter as your County Equine Inspector.
As for Governors, in my state of California I know my Governor will proceed with heroic action as he has been an Action Hero for years.

My $0.02,
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Apprenticeships 21 Feb 2005 02:05 #55

Bill,
The only thing scary about the Terminator are his extended family-Skeletor(Mariah Schriver),The Swimmer(ted kennedy), The Bootlegger(Papa Kennedy),The Ace(Joe Kennedy) The Skipper, TOO(JFK)Test Pilot(JFK JR), The Prosecuter(Bobby Kennedy), and though divorced Magic Bullet Proof Jackie O'--
They sound like a cast for a comic book! Thats Right! They are! Its called"Das Capital" Written by one Karl Marx!
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:Apprenticeships 21 Feb 2005 02:37 #56

Now that is funny, I don't care who you are that there is funny. I don't know were you come up with this stuff Jason but you should go on the road. Ok, now I think we all need to settle down just a little. I believe the law states that it has to be a theraputic device. Now they are going to have to get a little more specific, eggbar, wedge pad, 8 nails instead of 6. So I don't think they are talking about every shoe or trim we do just the hard stuff that we pleabs obviously can't understand. So instead of $300 it's $500 cause we're a little pi$$ed off. No harm there. As far as unions go, no thanks. I agree that the AFA should be trying to do something, but only for it's members. And maybe only for certified members. I hope I don't hear any AFA bashers out there start begging the AFA to fix this for them when they don't bother to pay their dues. Hopefully there will be some communication between the AFA and the Vets. But of the 60,000 farriers in this country only about 10% are actually members, it's hard to have a voice when you're not collectively speaking. Just my humble proud to be a member of the AFA opinion
Dave Purves CF
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:Apprenticeships 21 Feb 2005 03:28 #57

I agree with Dave and the best governing body for farriery should be a farriery orginization(ie;AFA). Dont kid yourselves the vets dont want us to fall under their malpractice insurance and thats precisely what would happen if I/you did a prescribed procedure under a vets auspices. On the other hand i think that in order to practice you must be judged competant to practice commercially and this would also require farriers to carry liability coverage. This would also rid the trade of 4 for 40$ hacks with the motto of "nip til they drip".or the people that bought a book and set of tools a TSC and figured they would make a lil extra cash screwing up horses feet. of course the part timers see this differently they can shoe less expensively because they dont pay taxes dont have to buy health insurance, dont carry liability and make it more difficult for full timers to get the price they deserve to make a living. so think of it this way if your competant and we are licensed/certified in the long run your gonna make more $. So dont let the government put our trade in the vets hands, or even the governments hands join the AFA make it stronger and better and we as an industry will have lobbying power to get done what we need , BE THE HAMMER,NOT THE NAIL! in other words take your future in to your own hands and dont be a victim of the powers at hand. now ill get off my soap box. LMAO

Be Safe Mo Shaw
"just because weve done it that way fo r so long, doesnt necessarily make it right"
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RE:Apprenticeships 21 Feb 2005 05:05 #58

Hey Dave,
If we put Skeletor(Mrs Governator) and Magic Bullet Proof Jackie O' in a white lincoln convertable, would Jackie O' chase Skeletor off the back of the trunk? :D
Outside, government regulation is BAD, and would simply be a tool to furhter "regulate commerce", which is a congressional euphemism for TAX. We had an elongated disscussion on this last year, in which I came out on the short end... A body like the AMA or State Bar, independent of gov't beauracracy, knowledgable in the science and art of horseshoeing, with the ability to mandate skills, provide standards of care and police the craft would probobly be a good idea. The AFA with a badge and six guns...running the rustlers out of town!
Jason
"Always listen to the experts. They tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it." Robert Heinlien
Jason Maki CJF, RJF
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RE:Apprenticeships 21 Feb 2005 05:26 #59

Well, it certainly seems to me that with all of these states passing or wanting to pass these laws, that if we don't police ourselves, someone else is going to step in and do it, and I don't know how the rest of you feel but I for one am not going to be happy is the government steps in. The first reason is it won't do any good. Our wonderful government seems to like to set standards that anyone can achieve without much education or skill. So once they've ******ed down the standard to the lowest common demonitator, the hacks are still among us. Two we will have to pay some type of licensing fee not to mention operator fees and whatever else Hillary can think of so she can shiit on her golden tiolet seat. And last, we will be governed and policed by people that got fired from Airport Security. These people don't know about horseshoeing nor care to know. We need to make sure that our profession stays our profession and not the profession that some jack in the box senator that was low man on the totum pole decides it should be.
DAve Purves CF :eek:
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:Apprenticeships 21 Feb 2005 06:06 #60

  • Bill Adams
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As another proud member (and almost a CF) I think the AFA will be in the mix. Then all we have to do is to get Doug and Gene to sing "Kume By Yah" together.
Hey Jason,
If the GOP is so tough how come Teddy has killed more people with his Olds than George ever did in his F104?
Although I voted for him, Arnold is not so concervitve. Major improvement over the last one even so.
I have a client who leaves my check with the receptionest at the state highway office where she works. I don't think I'll ever get used to seeing the Terminator's face in the official state Governor's portrait in the lobby.
I heard that there is a Congressman or Senator who was a Farrier.
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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