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TOPIC: CJF preparation

Re: CJF preparation 26 Jun 2012 11:50 #16

  • Eric Russell
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tbloomer wrote:
H13 way better for hot work than S7. Both are air quench.

I think the reason tool makers started using S7 is because the tools tear up quicker and they get to sell you replacement head stamps and creasers more often.

Is this all from your personal experiences Tom or are you just repeating what you've been told?
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Re: CJF preparation 26 Jun 2012 12:59 #17

  • tbloomer
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Eric Russell wrote:
tbloomer wrote:
H13 way better for hot work than S7. Both are air quench.

I think the reason tool makers started using S7 is because the tools tear up quicker and they get to sell you replacement head stamps and creasers more often.

Is this all from your personal experiences Tom or are you just repeating what you've been told?
Personal experience. I've bought and made tools with both. H13 always holds up better for me. If you read the descriptions, S7 is considered a "medium" heat tool steel. S7 has better shock resistance though - H13 will crack if it isn't forged at the right heat and properly annealed.

I'm sure somebody "told you" S7 was a better hot work tool steel than H13, but I'm thinking it was a tool maker or somebody that heard it from a tool maker and was just repeating it. When in doubt, look it up.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
Last Edit: 26 Jun 2012 13:03 by tbloomer.
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Re: CJF preparation 27 Jun 2012 00:58 #18

  • Eric Russell
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tbloomer wrote:
S7 has better shock resistance though - H13 will crack if it isn't forged at the right heat and properly annealed.

It think it's pretty clear then. S7 is easier.
I'm sure somebody "told you" S7 was a better hot work tool steel than H13, but I'm thinking it was a tool maker or somebody that heard it from a tool maker and was just repeating it. When in doubt, look it up.

Nobody told me anything. When I'm working I like to be able to clean up my tools quickly and get back to work. S7 does this for me.
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Re: CJF preparation 27 Jun 2012 02:14 #19

  • dgrimwoo
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Rachael,

I made a couple of shoes tonight. Heels are coming around, but you can see where I didn't bump the toe and it looks alittle weak. I have a better nail fit but I'm either course or fine and I need to fix that. It's tough for me to be consistent.
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Derek Grimwood, CF
Grimwood's Farrier Service
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Re: CJF preparation 27 Jun 2012 03:03 #20

  • Rachael Kane
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Sure looks like a nice toe clip from this side of things :)
Rachael :)
CF

'Motivation gets you going, discipline keeps you going.' (Jim Ryan).
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Re: CJF preparation 27 Jun 2012 10:37 #21

  • Eric Russell
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Nice shoe Derek. Like you said the toe is very weak. Your biggest problem will come when you try to fit the shoe with those heels.

Generally speaking you are going to fit center of the web over the center of the heel. The center of your heel is way to the outside.

You might be better off instead of rounding the outside of the heel, check the inside to the center of the stock then check the outside to center of the stock. That way you will at least have your heel in the center of the stock which should save you time fitting and filing. It also gets your heel on there faster so you can concentrate on nail placement and cleaning your branch up with you hammer at the end of the heat.

Also, forging your heel should take about as much time as bumping the toe. So if you're forging your heel, turning the branch, stamping, pritcheling in one heat there is no reason you shouldn't be able to bump your toe and turn it in the same heat.
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Re: CJF preparation 27 Jun 2012 11:57 #22

  • tbloomer
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It think it's pretty clear then. S7 is easier.
Easier to mess up and mushroom when working hot. Need to work at a lower heat to avoid this. A trade-off.
Nobody told me anything. When I'm working I like to be able to clean up my tools quickly and get back to work. S7 does this for me.
Easier to fix mushrooms, yea. I would rather not have the mushrooms in the first place or have to stop to clean them up, though I haven't had a problem doing that with H13 either. The only time I had it crack was when I forged it too hot.
Tom Bloomer
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Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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Re: CJF preparation 27 Jun 2012 13:38 #23

  • dgrimwoo
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Thanks for the advise. Sounds like wise instruction and I will work on it. My problem it seems is everytime I get the heel shaped like I want it, when I bring it back to the original thickness and width I distort the heel. I know I am over working it at this point.
Derek Grimwood, CF
Grimwood's Farrier Service
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Re: CJF preparation 27 Jun 2012 23:16 #24

  • Eric Russell
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When you forge back into the heel the stock gets thicker. It spreads wider losing your heel

There's a few different ways to go about it.

1. Forge down more instead of back into the steel. Then clean up your fish lips.

2. Before you start your heel, hammer the stock a little thinner. If it's already thin when you forge back it will fill back up to 5/16, 3/8...

3. After you forge your heel, turn your wrist and knock off the corners on all sides. When you forge the stock back down the top and bottom will fill back in and the center doesn't move all that much.
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The following user(s) said Thank You: dgrimwoo, Rachael Kane, cyber steve

Re: CJF preparation 28 Jun 2012 06:39 #25

  • Travis Morgan
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Good tips there.
Copenhagen. You can see it in my smile!
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Re: CJF preparation 30 Jun 2012 23:31 #26

  • Dan Puckett
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I am in the same boat as Rachael and Derek. I passed my CF in Sept 2010, and have been laggin ever since in practicing enough to be efficient enough to pass the CJF. John Voigt told me last winter that if you work on the elements, it will all come together at the time you test. Don't psyche yourself out, either (famous last words).
It helps me to draw a line down the center of the stock with a divider, giving me a target to punch my holes. Punch straight down, get your nail pitch with your pritchel. I forget who said the last one, but I have heard it more than once.
I am still at the point I can't consistently punch nail holes without either shearing the tip of my punch, or making it mushroom. I HAVE figured out I am hitting it too hard with the hammer when I get close to bottoming out. So, I just punch a little slower. I'm sure it'll come around.
Good luck to you both. I plan to odo my written and straight bar in Illinois this fall. Or at least the written. Then I'll HAVE to get my butt in gear and practice.

Dan
Dan Puckett, CF
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Re: CJF preparation 01 Jul 2012 01:09 #27

  • dgrimwoo
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Eric,

Started early today and knocked off shoeing at 2 pm. I was able to get out to the garage and work on what you told me. I bumped the toe and made the bend 4 min. I then made the heel and turned the branch 14 min. (Wasted time here) Made my 2nd heel and turned the second branch marked my holes. Had to take 3 heats to punch my holes. (Insert wasted time here again Pulled clip. Rounded the clip on the horn, boxed and safed,cleaned up sole pressure and ironed out shoe. I didn't clean up with a file so you could see what I'm doing with my hammer. My problem with making holes this time was I never let it get hot enough.
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Derek Grimwood, CF
Grimwood's Farrier Service
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Re: CJF preparation 01 Jul 2012 01:34 #28

  • Eric Russell
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Looking good!

Don't forget to forge your stock flat at the end of each heat. Once you can make a 3 heat shoe your gonna want to start making a pair at a time.
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Re: CJF preparation 01 Jul 2012 02:07 #29

  • Rachael Kane
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c'mon Dan, no time like the present to start work! Says me who's heading off for 4 days off with family. hmmmm. We just bought a 110 year old house to renovate last night too, should get PLENTY of forging time in, lol.

Nice work Derek, ya puttin me to shame, but I'll catch you up. :pinch:
Rachael :)
CF

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Re: CJF preparation 01 Jul 2012 10:43 #30

  • smitty88
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I dont know how hard they mark on shoe making in the CJF
here are some things i see in your shoes

your toe is to peeky
your nail holes are in and out pritchel them the way you stamped them
keep in line with the stock when stamping.

you are pulling your clip to one side
also forge your clip it doesent need to the same thickness
at the base as at the apex
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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