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TOPIC: Independant Contractor Exemption cert.

Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 28 Apr 2011 20:15 #1

It was recently brought to my attention, that even though I had my County, and State Business Licenses, and my EIN. I needed to exempt myself from workers comp, here in the state of Montana.
So, I got my Independant Contractors Exemption certificate.
It costs $125.00 for 2 years.
I was wondering, how many of you have it too.?
Partly because, during this process, the workers Comp Division, didnt really know where to categorize me.
Which leads me to believe, that, there arent many Farriers that get it .

I also thought I'd bring it up, in this part of the forum, so others might think about it.

Basically, its required by State law,and it is to ensure that I can NOT hold a client responsible for any injuries to myself, while on theyre premises.

It also exempts me from paying into Work Comp.

Anybody know more about this subject?

John Conner
John's Horseshoeing L.L.C
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RE:Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 30 Apr 2011 12:08 #2

  • Mike Ferrara
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I was hoping that somebody would jump in here.

I don't have any answers but I recently had a large account tell me that I have to show proof that I'm covered by workmans comp. I've been doing some research and it seems this is sometimes required by the clients insurance. Normally I'd just walk but this is a BIG client and as time goes on I can see more clients demanding this.

Every time you get thinking that world just can't get any crazier something like this comes up.

I'd like to hear more about this "exemption" you got.
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RE:Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 30 Apr 2011 12:58 #3

  • Rick Burten
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Mike,

Do they require the vet, dentist, chiropractor, etc to show proof of coverage? If not, what makes you any different? Does the IRS recognize you as an Independent Contractor? If so, what's their problem?

I don't know if this will help, but if the barn is located in Illinois, you should read this: http://www.ehow.com/info_8003501_workers-compensation-insurance-illinois.html
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
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Je pense donc je suis
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RE:Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 01 May 2011 06:39 #4

  • chris bunting
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excuse my ignorance here , but isnt this why we have insurance ? in the uk and europe to the best of my knowledge it is compulsory to have insurance to cover all liabilities in a work situation
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 01 May 2011 11:39 #5

  • Mike Ferrara
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Rick Burten wrote:
Mike,

Do they require the vet, dentist, chiropractor, etc to show proof of coverage? If not, what makes you any different? Does the IRS recognize you as an Independent Contractor? If so, what's their problem?

I don't know about the vet but she mentioned a bunch of us including the people who do their hauling.

I guess the IRS considers me an independent contractor. I file my taxes as such and include all the 1099's folks send me.

I don't know if this will help, but if the barn is located in Illinois, you should read this: http://www.ehow.com/info_8003501_workers-compensation-insurance-illinois.html

Thanks for the link. I spent yesterday reading up on Indiana but, yes, this particular barn is in IL.
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RE:Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 01 May 2011 11:52 #6

  • Mike Ferrara
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chris bunting wrote:
excuse my ignorance here , but isnt this why we have insurance ? in the uk and europe to the best of my knowledge it is compulsory to have insurance to cover all liabilities in a work situation
chris

This doesn't have anything to do with liability or even health insurance. "Workmans Compensation" is a special kind of insurance that most employers are required to purchase to cover their employees against work place injuries.

My client's insurance company is driving this. What they're trying to do is force her to pay for workmans comp coverage for the independent contractors she uses even though we aren't employees.
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RE:Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 01 May 2011 14:05 #7

  • mwmyersdvm
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You may want to look into forming a corporation to get through this issue. it will limit your liability and protect you from IRS scrutiny on accounts that you do a lot of regular work for. Since you provide your own tools they usually look the other way, but they can frivilously invoke the "regular" work clause and say you are truly an employee and not an independent contractor. Whether they would prevail in an audit is not the issue, it is you having to endure one is the problem.

I have found workmen's comp insurance to be more helpful than problematical. It has no deductible and does pay pretty well for job related injuries. The rates are lower in my state than personal health insurance.

This client doesn't ask health care professionals this question because we are so liable for anything we do (or don't do) we have to carry liability insurance and juries love to give big awards related to income perception. I actually make far less than most people in my age group but a jury will find that difficult to believe. I have been on both sides of this issue where juries want to give huge awards to a 'victim' of a minor auto accident while if I am injured, I get less than double my medical bills which doesn't even pay the attorney's fees along with the medical so I am out of pocket for the balance.

M. W. Myers, D.V.M.
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RE:Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 01 May 2011 18:59 #8

  • Peters Shoeing
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Wow, what a nightmare. We work hard enough and now, yet another entity demanding some nonsense insurance when state laws pretty much render it useless. I mean, it's useless for horse-related accidents anyway. I guess if you tripped and fell on someone's property while "working", that would not be horse related, but leave it to the insurance companies to make the incident appear horse related and not to pay for medical expenses. ;)

In my state, the law is something like if you have less than 4 employees, you do not need workman's comp. What is the law in your state, Mike?

Arent we all more of the "independant contractor" types? Well, I file as a sole proprietor for now. Not sure when to change over. :confused:

And, on the topic of Insurance, not sure about Markel, but that Stratus Insurance is not looking too good IMO. My buddy got it and then got his 200 page policy which he says basically appears to have any/every exclusion you can think of.
Alan Peters
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RE:Independant Contractor Exemption cert. 02 May 2011 21:33 #9

Well,
I have my E.I.N. from the Fed's as "sole Proprieter, "member managed", LLC.

Of course , my State License, is Member managed , and an LLC.
and the County isnt too picky,

But , yeah, the "Exemption ", was for workers comp.
I was told , that way, if lets say the clients vehicle broke loose and rolled down hill, and hit me, on theyre property, I cant sue them , for not having work comp.
Otherwise, I would have to carry work comp on myself.

I had lunch with another farrier last week, and we discussed it.
He said , up till recently, it was $20. a year, no questions asked. Just sign a waiver with the state.
LOL< now its $125 for 2 years, and you have to have 15 points worth of business related items , to prove you are in business.

What strikes me funny, is a few of the points would be for items that are from doing "ACTIVE" business.
But, they were pretty strict, in telling me NOT to work at all, till this was complete.

But, its done. Feels pretty good too. NO worries.

I guess , my next step, is getting Health insurance. Just in case.

Thanks to you all , for the input and interest in this topic.
Very informative!

Be Safe
John Conner
John's Horseshoeing L.L.C
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