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TOPIC: could use some wisdom!

RE:could use some wisdom! 28 Sep 2010 12:23 #61

  • vthorseshoe
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George (from Maine);
Come on old friend, you know what happens when you make assumptions.

Every person I meet, come's into situations with pre-concieved idea's and a possible game plan. As this person did.

To his advantage, he came on and ASKED for opinions and that is what he recieved.
This was his chance to learn and recieve advice from a multitude of working farriers and I believe he has.

Much of his idea's have been considered by many who have walked this path before.
They may have learned from the school of hard knocks, or even failed because of their concepts of "doing it right"

This person "ASKED"... I give him lots of credit for starting this thread and I wish him the best.

my 2 cents worth ;)
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:could use some wisdom! 28 Sep 2010 12:23 #62

Michael,
Some good advice was given to me. "Decide where you want to live. Then shoe somewhere else for a while before moving to where you want to live." This allows you to get some experience and make your mistakes without them hanging over your head for years. And you WILL make some mistakes, whether in shoeing, customer relations, business, etc. The mistakes you make in your first year or two establish your reputation - not good. It's easier to build a good business after you have some experience, with no baggage, in a new area.

Also resist the temptation to overbook or oversell yourself. Even if you have talent, you can quickly dig yourself a hole by taking on more than you're ready for. I started slow, and increased my number of horses at a rate of about 50 per year, concentrating on good service and consistancy, rather than my skill as a farrier which was lacking, and still is. Eventually you will get to the point where you have a consistant base, and can be choosy about which new clients you accept, based on whatever criteria you decide.

The only way to get better is to always do your best, which you can't do if you have too much. It's like investing long term, rather than trying to beat the market on a day to day basis :).

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:could use some wisdom! 29 Sep 2010 15:00 #63

  • beslagsmed
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Don't expect to make a business out of friends or relatives. As stated don't start around our house. Just do the best job you can and treat every horse as if it was your's.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:could use some wisdom! 03 Oct 2010 23:45 #64

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Under cutting the going rate maybe the fastest way to ruin your business before it ever gets started. You'll make alot of enemies that way and they will likely make sure you get a very bad reputation. People who invest years to establish a business aren't likely to put up with a newbee going around trying to steal customers by low balling.
Jeremy Lacroix
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RE:could use some wisdom! 04 Oct 2010 02:57 #65

Undercutting is one thing but how many newbie's skills out do the established professionals?

It would seem to me that if people just wanna save a buck, they're not the sorts of clients the well established and highly skilled professionals tend to worry about losing.

I undercut the average trim fee by $5.00 back when I started 20 years ago. That meant I was getting $10/trim. It's hard to believe than anyone would still charge as little as $10 to trim a horse but seemed to me there was an ad from Craig's List posted here for discussion last year (or the year before) and that was what they were advertising as their fee. :eek:

So on the subject of undercutting, what's the amount of a cut that makes enemies and/or causes responsible horse folks to steer clear?
“Think for yourself and question authority” ~Timothy Leary~

Benjamin Franklin was often quoted as saying "it is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."

“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell...
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RE:could use some wisdom! 04 Oct 2010 10:15 #66

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Anne Tree Coley wrote:
Undercutting is one thing but how many newbie's skills out do the established professionals?

It would seem to me that if people just wanna save a buck, they're not the sorts of clients the well established and highly skilled professionals tend to worry about losing.

I undercut the average trim fee by $5.00 back when I started 20 years ago. That meant I was getting $10/trim. It's hard to believe than anyone would still charge as little as $10 to trim a horse but seemed to me there was an ad from Craig's List posted here for discussion last year (or the year before) and that was what they were advertising as their fee. :eek:

So on the subject of undercutting, what's the amount of a cut that makes enemies and/or causes responsible horse folks to steer clear?

Alot of people will try a low baller. The thing of trying to low ball is the lack of respect you show farriers who have dedicated years to the trade. All I can say is there were a few low ballers that tried in my area and they got run out within the first year.
Jeremy Lacroix
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RE:could use some wisdom! 04 Oct 2010 11:48 #67

Show Shoe wrote:
Alot of people will try a low baller. The thing of trying to low ball is the lack of respect you show farriers who have dedicated years to the trade. All I can say is there were a few low ballers that tried in my area and they got run out within the first year.

By how much did they undercut the going rates for trims and/or shoeing though? IOW's, what was the average fee and how much less did they charge?

I ask because I wasn't run out of town but won't assume it is only because I cut the average by $5.00 and that was some how acceptable. ;)

If you lose a client and consider it an act of disrespect on their part, well, do you even want them back or is this when you charge them (more) until you like them again? Hmmm, they pay their respects? :p
“Think for yourself and question authority” ~Timothy Leary~

Benjamin Franklin was often quoted as saying "it is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."

“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell...
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RE:could use some wisdom! 04 Oct 2010 11:54 #68

  • Gary Hill
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This is a difficult question to answer? When I started, the prices were trims $6.00 and shoes $20. Of course the established Farriers were making 10 and 30 or more. The economy always dictates prices. In todays world prices do run high even for the newbies. When they undercut in my area they cut as much as 30 to 40 dollars and that will get some peoples attention. BUT let them mess up and it bites them in the hinneys bigtime!
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:could use some wisdom! 04 Oct 2010 17:24 #69

Right now in my area; even the low ballers and Amish horseshoers are owed money and can't get paid.:rolleyes:

Here, it doesn't matter how cheap you are; you still are not going to be paid!!!:eek:

linda muggleworth
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RE:could use some wisdom! 04 Oct 2010 18:14 #70

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Anne Tree Coley wrote:
By how much did they undercut the going rates for trims and/or shoeing though? IOW's, what was the average fee and how much less did they charge?

I ask because I wasn't run out of town but won't assume it is only because I cut the average by $5.00 and that was some how acceptable. ;)

If you lose a client and consider it an act of disrespect on their part, well, do you even want them back or is this when you charge them (more) until you like them again? Hmmm, they pay their respects? :p

I didn't mean disrespect from the client I was talking about the person trying to low ball. Your lucky you didn't get run out of town maybe others didn't know you were low balling and $5 really isn't that much. I know if someone came into one of my barns and tried getting my business by cutting my prices I would run them out over $1. If they get into one of my barns from the work they do well then they earned it.
Jeremy Lacroix
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RE:could use some wisdom! 04 Oct 2010 20:16 #71

  • dave murray
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A few years ago there was a young guy starting out , right out of school.
He was going around low balling and i ran into him one day and tried to explain to him he shouldn't undercut prices.
He looked at me and said ,i know you've been doing this for over 30 years and have tons of experience, i'am fresh out of school and don't think i should be paid the same as you.
He said i just fiqured i should start at the bottom of the pay scale and work my way up.
So i told him that he should get an apprenticeship and work his way up. He told me he has tried but no one would take him on.
Don't know what became of him , haven't seen him in a coulpe years.
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RE:could use some wisdom! 05 Oct 2010 00:08 #72

  • Rick Burten
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Show Shoe wrote:
I know if someone came into one of my barns and tried getting my business by cutting my prices I would run them out over $1..
Out of curiosity, hiow would you accomplish that?

I'd be more off put by a client who switched just to save a couple of dollars.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:could use some wisdom! 05 Oct 2010 01:32 #73

Show Shoe wrote:
I didn't mean disrespect from the client I was talking about the person trying to low ball.

Ah, thanks for clearing that up.

Show Shoe wrote:
You're lucky you didn't get run out of town maybe others didn't know you were low balling and $5 really isn't that much.

I think, considering the example you gave (below), it was likely my approach and frame of mind.

As someone already stated, people starting out can charge less simply because they consider starting at the bottom and will eventually work their way up the pay scale with more experience and time to better their skills.

That is how I looked at it. I saw it no differently than the salary scale. Newly hired folks don't tend to start at the top of the pay scale but can work their way up the scale.

In a way, this IS being respectful of those who are more experienced but that's how I saw it...and still do.

Show Shoe wrote:
I know if someone came into one of my barns and tried getting my business by cutting my prices I would run them out over $1. If they get into one of my barns from the work they do well then they earned it.

I recently lost a barn to another Trimmer but it was the BO who was attempting to cut expenses. The other Trimmer happens to be a Horse Trainer who trims hooves too. The BO took one of their horses to this trainer and while the horse was in training it's feet were done there by the trainer/trimmer.

So basically I lost this account because I charged more than a local. A local could charge less but mainly due to having fewer miles to travel.

I've no hard feelings towards the BO or the Trainer/Trimmer because it wasn't personal but just plain business.

I had an opportunity to take a look at this person's handiwork just 2 days after the trims had been done. I didn't like what I saw but told the BO that if they needed my services in the future, not to hesitate to get in touch so, no bridges burned. Their checks were good along with their hospitality.
“Think for yourself and question authority” ~Timothy Leary~

Benjamin Franklin was often quoted as saying "it is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."

“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell...
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RE:could use some wisdom! 05 Oct 2010 01:37 #74

Gary Hill wrote:
This is a difficult question to answer? When I started, the prices were trims $6.00 and shoes $20. Of course the established Farriers were making 10 and 30 or more. The economy always dictates prices. In todays world prices do run high even for the newbies. When they undercut in my area they cut as much as 30 to 40 dollars and that will get some peoples attention. BUT let them mess up and it bites them in the hinneys bigtime!

I figure it all works out as it should. Sometimes people are getting their money's worth and sometimes they're not. Who could complain if they're getting a REAL bargain...more bang for their buck? But who won't complain if they feel they paid too much?
“Think for yourself and question authority” ~Timothy Leary~

Benjamin Franklin was often quoted as saying "it is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."

“You can tell whether a man is clever by his answers. You can tell...
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RE:could use some wisdom! 05 Oct 2010 02:05 #75

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Anne Tree Coley wrote:
I figure it all works out as it should. Sometimes people are getting their money's worth and sometimes they're not. Who could complain if they're getting a REAL bargain...more bang for their buck? But who won't complain if they feel they paid too much?

Those were the bottom prices, trims and or keg shoes. Now when handmades were applied prices were up to $50. Not much now but then, it was like you were killing them with the price?:eek: Now days so called trimmers charge around $70 ahead compared to my $40-50 price, mine is based on 6 weeks and the trimmers want to come back in two to tweek? Lately due to leaving way too much sole and lameing horses, the phone has been ringing good and people are coming back!:D I guess the Kool Aid went sour?
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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