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TOPIC: GPF Clinic cont.

RE:GPF Clinic cont. 13 Jul 2010 22:55 #46

  • solidrockshoer
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tbloomer wrote:
I have a perfect hoof wear kit without the shoe inserts. Wanna try it out?

Been waiting for some effed up feet to try it on. The kit came with a video for how to get a perfect hoof with perfect hoof wear.

We could test it and then apply for our perfect PhD's online. ;)

Tom Bloomer.Phd has a nice ring to it :D
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 13 Jul 2010 23:13 #47

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Juhani Takanen wrote:
Only way to "support" palmar tubules is to place support in lines with the tubules. And you don´t want to do that if you can´t shorten the leverage in the toe.

Although I don't really understand what you are trying to get across here, there is rarely ever only one way to do something. Explain again please.

Mr. Bloomer,
No boats built, but did restore a couple.
Scruggs Farrier Service
John Scruggs, CJF
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 13 Jul 2010 23:31 #48

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Juhani Takanen wrote:
Do you consider yourself as a bit sensitive? I told you that i liked your shoeing, but i would´ve made few things different.

I'm sensitive to people ripping on Travis when he shod a bad footed horse at a clinic and it walked away more comfortable than when it came in.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 00:09 #49

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scruggs1 wrote:
Mr. Bloomer,
No boats built, but did restore a couple.
Ok. So you have war stories. :cool:
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 00:58 #50

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whip n drive wrote:
Tom Bloomer.Phd has a nice ring to it :D
Piled Higher and Deeper
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 01:22 #51

  • Jaye Perry
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tbloomer wrote:
Piled Higher and Deeper

I believe that Whole Heartly!:rolleyes::rolleyes:
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 02:19 #52

Eric Russell wrote:
If I'm following you correctly, you're saying the heels were left too high and the shoe was fit to the high heel?

If the horse walked up lame wouldn't the #1 goal for shoeing to have the horse walk off more comfortable?

It's difficult to gauge vertical depth in a photo. If the toe is short you can't always trim the heel to where you would like to.

If the foot is too short to trim it how you would like, should you really be hanging all sorts of shoe out the back? Wouldn't hanging more shoe out the back put more leverage on the heel?

Would you rather he trimmed the heels till they blended into the bulbs? Fit the heels to the back of the bulbs? Added a wedge? Then have him be crippled because of all the nonsense that went into it when the foot really needed protection for a shoeing?

Personally I think part of being a good farrier is knowing when not to push things and just do what you can do until the next shoeing.

Here's on from yesterday, I'm sure everyone can pick it apart. Personally I think the horse no longer limping was the most important order of the day.

Well said and good points Eric.

Nice job on your horse.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 02:31 #53

cuttinshoer wrote:
IMO he did nothing to support the back half of that foot, which IMO is the reason it looks the way it does.

Hi Justin

Been thinking about your comment. I do not know how the horse was shod prior to the clinic or the reasons why they look the way it does. Judging from the rings and distortion they have been this way for a long time. For all I know the horse has always been shod for support. :)

A lot of good debating about the effects of leverage and support. My thinking is along the same lines as Scruggs.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 02:45 #54

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Well said and good points Eric.
Yea except for the fact that I didn't say anything about how the heels were trimmed, vertical depth, adding a wedge, etc. So he was making up an argument out of thin air and then taking offense to it. Paranoid much?

. . . had a hissy fit because I liked your work and his better. Give yourselves some credit and stop being paranoid.
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 03:01 #55

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Phil Armitage wrote:
A lot of good debating about the effects of leverage and support.
Really? Who answered my question about the locations of the fulcrums?

Is the DDFT a fulcrum? What is the affect of the condrocoronal ligaments on the heel horn? The bars, frog, digital cushion, pastern length, superficial sesamoidian ligament?

Where are the fulcrums and where are the ends of the levers? Is anybody going to answer that or do we continue with the tap dance?
Tom Bloomer
http://blackburnforge.com
302-222-6404


Here's the deal. I'm trying to keep it simple.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 03:08 #56

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tbloomer wrote:
Yea except for the fact that I didn't say anything about how the heels were trimmed, vertical depth, adding a wedge, etc. So he was making up an argument out of thin air and then taking offense to it. Paranoid much?


Then you didn't make much sense. How would extending the shoe do anything besides add leverage to the heel? I don't understand, where the toe was set, how would extending the heels not leverage the heels?
. . . had a hissy fit because I liked your work and his better. Give yourselves some credit and stop being paranoid.

Tom, could you, me , phil, rick, tom,...... get a shoe on that horse? Phil was in person at the clinic say the foot was in bad shape and the horse walked up limping. On the spot, in front of a group of poeple, could you have done the same work?
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 03:30 #57

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Hi Justin

Been thinking about your comment. I do not know how the horse was shod prior to the clinic or the reasons why they look the way it does. Judging from the rings and distortion they have been this way for a long time. For all I know the horse has always been shod for support. :)

A lot of good debating about the effects of leverage and support. My thinking is along the same lines as Scruggs.

Theres no doubt the horse has been that way awhile, he didn't get that way because of the shoeing.

It appears that the horse was shod at a certification, so my geuss would be that it was shod to AFA standards. I will say if it was meant to be that way it was a hell of a job on that foot. When Dusty Franklin shod a horse at the cert. I was at, he stated that if he was shoeing the horse in everyday life that he would have shod the horse differently than the standard.

Phil you put those picks for the purpose of showing that superior forging skills will do more for a horse, am I right or wrong.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 03:47 #58

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Eric Russell wrote:
Would you rather he trimmed the heels till they blended into the bulbs? Fit the heels to the back of the bulbs? Added a wedge? Then have him be crippled because of all the nonsense that went into it when the foot really needed protection for a shoeing?

Personally I think part of being a good farrier is knowing when not to push things and just do what you can do until the next shoeing.

Here's on from yesterday, I'm sure everyone can pick it apart. Personally I think the horse no longer limping was the most important order of the day.

There is a big difference in the foot you shod versus the one Travis shod. I don't think anyone is saying Travis done a bad job, I know I am not. What I was commenting about was superior forging skills being able to give a horse everything it needs.

This pic says a lot to me.
[ATTACH]14356[/ATTACH]
That foot looks like it is falling through itself trying to get some frog PSI for that weak digital cushion. Perhaps a barshoe or some sort of frog support would have been a better choice for this foot. Kinda like what you did for the foot you shod a good base of support for the back of the foot and some frog support. (That equipack soft won't stay in a foot very long like that.)

Your getting all defensive over your buddy when he's not getting bad mouthed at all, this actually started out pretty civil and then you got stirred up.

Here is one that is comparable maybe a little worse than Travis's foot. The horse had been short shod for so long his foot had stopped growing down, it was only growing forward, They had kevlar and equilox and whatever else to get him nailed up but all he needed was a properly dressed foot and a properly fit shoe. He was so short at four weeks my trim was my burn, which wasn't even enough to get the clips in. His walls were so brittle I could push the nails in a 1/2 inch with my fingers.
[ATTACH]14357[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]14358[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]14359[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]14360[/ATTACH]
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 03:50 #59

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Here is the pic that didn't show up.

[ATTACH]14361[/ATTACH]
Attachments:
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 14 Jul 2010 03:55 #60

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tbloomer wrote:
Where is the fulcrums for the levers between ground reaction forces and the weight of the horse?
Tom you have a lot to learn & your physics & physiology lacking , heel angle is predominately governed by pastern length , The fulcrum is a shifting configuration , hence sesamoids & sesamoidean ligaments & the make up of the joints , as for shortening up the Toe & taking any more wall away at this point in time for this particular horse , it would only lead to lameness , there has been a extreme dietary change in this horse & at some earlier stage the horse was over heated meaning, feed over excessive amounts of protein & carbohydrates, the shoeing performed on this horse at this particular time is what is only required till such time as the change in growth from the horses diet change balances out, all in all its not a pretty job but a wise one, better that then one that was pretty & polished up & a lame horse .
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