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TOPIC: GPF Clinic cont.

RE:GPF Clinic cont. 16 Jul 2010 21:21 #136

  • Rick Burten
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Phil Armitage wrote:
If I put too much shoe past the heels he pulls them. The lesser of two evils is to fit just past the heels and keeps his shoes on.
Phil,

Have you tried spooning the heels?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 16 Jul 2010 21:37 #137

Rick Burten wrote:
Phil,

Have you tried spooning the heels?

Would that work on extended heels? And wouldn't you loose ground surface in the heels by doing that? Why not keep the ground surface in tacked or go to a wider stock, fit just past the heels? Or something like onion heels.
Phil Armitage, CF
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"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 16 Jul 2010 22:12 #138

  • Gary Hill
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Aaah, spooned heels are a long drawn part of the shoe, kinda like clips. I just box the heels with the ole angle grinder and make sure the hinds are correct and well, it works for me?:D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 16 Jul 2010 22:32 #139

  • Mike Ferrara
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British Matt wrote:
When I was at Hereford Slim Symonns made a comment about how as a farrier we could travel to any corner of the world, and if we met another farrier, we could talk for hours. And that he couldnt imagine brick layers or electricians talking about the last job they did with any enthusiasm. Very true words, and it makes you proud to be part of it.

I can. I don't know about brick layers and electricians specifically but I did quite a bit of traveling while working in other businesses and the talk goes on the same way..if not more.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 00:34 #140

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Justin, I know you quit apprenticing for me, so you could go full time, and I know you shoe more horses than I do now, but could you maybe help me next week one day. I couldn't get a hold you on the phone so I thought I'd try here.:(:);)
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 00:43 #141

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Phil Armitage wrote:
Hey Justin, couple things I just thought about.

My comment in the Journal are just examples of how the laser can be used, nothing set in stone, I focused more about it being a good tool not an article on how to shoe horses.

I wonder when we talk about under run heels if we trim them the same? Most of the time when I am done trimming the heels are back and by the time I fit the shoes the support is there without extending the heels of the shoes. If your not trimming the heels back to at least the highest and widest part of the frog and add length in the shoes I would think this would do more damage than good. Same principles when wedging.

I know Phil I just couldn't resist the opportunity to give ya a hard time on that one. I'd say we are pretty close on the trimming.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 00:47 #142

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Anthony_Lawrence wrote:
Don't you need to pass English to attain these quals?

Hmmmmm.
failed English :D, very low grades for writing skill's maybe ? , high marks for comprehension?, your assuming that what I post on theses forums is how I have conducted my self though life & performed in a studying & exams environment & how I conduct myself in general life . lets put this in to some perspective in regards to ME!!!!!, this is not a 5,000 word essay dependent on a grade ,It is of a recreational nature, simply a "forum" & I find it extremely relaxing the flow of simply just to hitting keys with out all the sentence structure punctuation & spell checking one has to adhere to in the real world ;)
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 01:47 #143

cuttinshoer wrote:
I know Phil I just couldn't resist the opportunity to give ya a hard time on that one. I'd say we are pretty close on the trimming.

LOL, made me go back and read the article again. :D

Just got done reading Esco Buff's article in the Journal, I thought it was a good one, good stuff.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 03:32 #144

  • Rick Burten
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Would that work on extended heels?
Most of the time it does for me.
And wouldn't you loose ground surface in the heels by doing that?
Not necessarily
Why not keep the ground surface in tacked or go to a wider stock, fit just past the heels? Or something like onion heels.
Why wider stock? If the heels are run forward and you fit jst past them, what have you really accomplished? What are the onion heels going to do, mechanically , To help the hooves? And, what about incorporating some form of frog support?
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 09:34 #145

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Rick Burten wrote:
No Jack, I'm not trying to look you up and I had forgotten that you said that in the very beginning. Actually, I couldn't care less whether you are a doctor of anything or not. I was just trying to put things in proper context.

Again, your trial and tribulations in that regard are of no interest to me.

For someone who professes to be a farrier and a veterinarian you certainly seem reticent and obfuscatory any time anyone inquires of your background/credentials.

It is hard to take seriously anything you say when you have been so unwilling to be forthcoming with your work, client base, etc. Since each of us here provides services to the public, and our names and contact information is readily and easily available to all, one can only wonder what it is you are hiding. Again, it truly is of no concern to me but if you want to be taken seriously and be welcome in our 'community' then it is incumbent on you to act responsibly and in a forthright manner.

Again, what you choose to do is of no importance to me. You extended an olive branch to me and I'm trying to respond accordingly. In truth, it would be far easier for me to treat with you as I have in the past. However, I'm willing to go a different route if you are too. The ball is now in your court. Whether you 'hit an ace' or 'fault out' is entirely up to you.

Peace, Love and Nuclear War! :)

Rick
I welcome the Idea we can finely bury the hatchet & get along on a friendly basis Rick :) & I'm Autistic , savant & far from ever being a sociable scholar, my clients are all strictly by referral. advertising is out of the question. I make a good living away from the limelight.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 15:42 #146

Rick Burten wrote:
Why wider stock? If the heels are run forward and you fit jst past them, what have you really accomplished? What are the onion heels going to do, mechanically , To help the hooves? And, what about incorporating some form of frog support?

Like lateral support on hind shoes, ground reaction force. For years a trailer was used, however all you had was the same width stock turned out to the side, more of a lateral extension or lever. Bob Pethick introduced to me the idea of forging a wider heel on hind shoes and I have been using this idea for a couple of years now when needed with good results. The trick is knowing when it is needed and the type of footing the horse works and lives on. KH and St. Croix now manufacture hind shoes with lateral support, this tells me the concept and demand has increased. For underrun heels why not provide support on the front feet using the same concept and fit tighter to prevent shoe loss? I use straight bars for that reason. Maybe I'm wrong but I would think onion heels or wider heels would provide decent support in the back of the foot without extending shoes/pads to the heels bulbs. I use the KH Alum Century support shoes on a few underrun heeled horses I do. The feedback from trainers and riders so far have been positive. As time goes on I am using less wedge and frog support pads. The most common pad I use now if needed is leather. Sounds like we agree on a few things. Still seems to me if I spooned the heels I would loose ground surface which would result in loosing caudal support. Thanks for the dialog, good stuff and I agree to respectfully disagree. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 16:09 #147

  • Mike Ferrara
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Like lateral support on hind shoes, ground reaction force. For years a trailer was used, however all you had was the same width stock turned out to the side, more of a lateral extension or lever. Bob Pethick introduced to me the idea of forging a wider heel on hind shoes and I have been using this idea for a couple of years now when needed with good results. The trick is knowing when it is needed and the type of footing the horse works and lives on. KH and St. Croix now manufacture hind shoes with lateral support, this tells me the concept and demand has increased. For underrun heels why not provide support on the front feet using the same concept and fit tighter to prevent shoe loss? I use straight bars for that reason. Maybe I'm wrong but I would think onion heels or wider heels would provide decent support in the back of the foot without extending shoes/pads to the heels bulbs. I use the KH Alum Century support shoes on a few underrun heeled horses I do. The feedback from trainers and riders so far have been positive. As time goes on I am using less wedge and frog support pads. The most common pad I use now if needed is leather. Sounds like we agree on a few things. Still seems to me if I spooned the heels I would loose ground surface which would result in loosing caudal support. Thanks for the dialog, good stuff and I agree to respectfully disagree. :)

I don't think a trailer provides lateral support as much as it causes some drag on landing.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 16:41 #148

  • Rick Burten
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Like lateral support on hind shoes, ground reaction force.
what does lateral support have to do with dealing with run forward/under run/crushed heels? How will the ground reaction forces affect the lateral heel when it has been widened for additional support? I'm referring to force vectors and their effect on the already compromised horn at the heel.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 21:12 #149

Phil Armitage wrote:
Like lateral support on hind shoes, ground reaction force. For years a trailer was used, however all you had was the same width stock turned out to the side, more of a lateral extension or lever. Bob Pethick introduced to me the idea of forging a wider heel on hind shoes and I have been using this idea for a couple of years now when needed with good results. The trick is knowing when it is needed and the type of footing the horse works and lives on. KH and St. Croix now manufacture hind shoes with lateral support, this tells me the concept and demand has increased. For underrun heels why not provide support on the front feet using the same concept and fit tighter to prevent shoe loss? I use straight bars for that reason. Maybe I'm wrong but I would think onion heels or wider heels would provide decent support in the back of the foot without extending shoes/pads to the heels bulbs. I use the KH Alum Century support shoes on a few underrun heeled horses I do. The feedback from trainers and riders so far have been positive. As time goes on I am using less wedge and frog support pads. The most common pad I use now if needed is leather. Sounds like we agree on a few things. Still seems to me if I spooned the heels I would loose ground surface which would result in loosing caudal support. Thanks for the dialog, good stuff and I agree to respectfully disagree. :)

onion heels don´t support anything if you don´t have bars underneath them. what is more important is to decide whether you need to make extension to the ground- or foot side. that´s what is influencing the grf.
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RE:GPF Clinic cont. 17 Jul 2010 23:23 #150

  • Gary Hill
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Personally I feel onion heels are used for protection of an insulted area on the bottom of the foot? I find no need of this application if I am able to use a shoe with a wider web that does float and support the whole foot. BUT ya know I could be wrong?:D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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