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TOPIC: Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot?

RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 03 Aug 2010 02:28 #76

  • Mike Ferrara
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George Geist wrote:
From Practical Blacksmithing first published in 1904
http://www.usgennet.org/usa/topic/preservation/smithy/chpt1.htm

"In hard times (and hard times are now like the poor, "always with us,") a lot of tinkers start in the shoeing and blacksmith business. If they could make a dollar a day in something else they would stay out, but this being impossible, they think it better to try at the anvil. For them to get anything to do without cutting prices is out of the question, and so the cutting business begins, and ends when the regular smith has come down to the tinker’s price. To remedy this we must go to the root of the evil. First, political agitation against a system whereby labor is debased"

Is nothing new about it during recessions or depressions or whatever you want to call them. Has been happening much longer than any of us have been around.
George

I guess that's about the way it is.
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 02 Sep 2010 21:29 #77

  • Peters Shoeing
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Another barefoot client gone rogue. Client claims his vet recommends for his horse to remain barefoot whereas I recommended shoes for this particular case. Oddly enough, the client gives me the vets number because he wanted me to discuss the trimming for this horse...yes, that's what he wanted. So, I call the vet and sure enough, the vet recommends shoes. What's the polite and professional thing to do here?
Alan Peters
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 02 Sep 2010 21:40 #78

  • C Miller
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I believe the best thing to do here is to request that the three of you involved have a conversation with everyone present. Then you dont have to deal with the he said she said ****. And you are free and clear of the vet or client saying that you made you own interpetation out of what was relayed to you second hand.
Cory Miller
slow is smooth, smooth is fast
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 03 Sep 2010 00:27 #79

  • Rachael Kane
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As you have all said far more eloquently than I, it has a lot to do with the area and what the owners are doing with their nags.

I just moved from a coastal 'lifestyle' area where 'the rural dream' is to own a horse - not to use it, just to look at in the paddock. There was a taxi-driver there who did a 2 week course and - you guessed it - he magically transformed into a barefoot trimmer and expert on horses feet ('anatomical correct' - it's written on his card, along with 'shoes are never an option').

I was only shoeing part time then and when I decided I wanted to get good and make a career out of shoeing, I also had to move interstate to a place where people were more serious about using their horses. That area was just ripe for a BUA and will not change, it's the demographic.

The customers I have been getting here are of a much better standard, but are still pretty light on the ground. Spring has just sprung and I'm looking forward to getting under more and spending less time on here (no offense:D).

On a political note, if we were to run out of cheap oil and horse transport became more viable again, these BUAs would really have to step up their marketing! Although I'm sure they would still swear by their BS about lameness being just a transitional thing. If or when, I look forward to that day in many ways - I would love to see us all getting around in carts.
Rachael :)
CF

'Motivation gets you going, discipline keeps you going.' (Jim Ryan).
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 03 Sep 2010 11:25 #80

Interesting cycle change taking place way up here in the far northeast. For the last two years, a lot of my area decided to try barefoot, but this summer most are going back to shoes - at least front shoes, but a lot all around. I always buy all my shoes and nails in April, to take advantage of a 10% discount, but this year I had to re-order at the end of July. The barefooters are either trying to apply shoes, trying to sell boots or glue ons, or moving on to something else. I would rather be me than them right now, except that I have more work than I want.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 04 Sep 2010 01:30 #81

I have always maintained that the "barefooters" since they ride in boots and glued on plastic shoes are not really barefoot proponents. I prefer to call them "Ferrophobic" since it is not pro barefoot but actually fear of steel.... (bad steel nails bad..... bad steel shoes bad.) ..... that is the driving force behind them.
George Spear
CNBBT, CNBF, CLS


".....and I said to the horse: Trust no man in whose eyes you do not see yourself reflected as an equal."
Don Vincenzo Giobbe
CA. 1700

"What people do not appreciate is that every time a horse submits to...
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 04 Sep 2010 02:04 #82

  • Anthony_Lawrence
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Dances with Hooves wrote:
I have always maintained that the "barefooters" since they ride in boots and glued on plastic shoes are not really barefoot proponents. I prefer to call them "Ferrophobic" since it is not pro barefoot but actually fear of steel.... (bad steel nails bad..... bad steel shoes bad.) ..... that is the driving force behind them.

Ferrophobic. I like it.

Phobia = an irrational fear, and indeed their fear of steel horseshoes is irratioanl, based on the promulgation of the junk science primarily from Strasser et al.

May I use that term?
Ant.
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 04 Sep 2010 10:00 #83

Anthony_Lawrence wrote:
Ferrophobic. I like it.

Phobia = an irrational fear, and indeed their fear of steel horseshoes is irratioanl, based on the promulgation of the junk science primarily from Strasser et al.

May I use that term?

Of course use it. Especially with the ex-barefooters rush to polymethelmethacralate and epona shoes on any and all horses we need a new term for those who cannot sleep at night due their fear that steel in the form of shoes or nails may contact a hoof somewhere.
George Spear
CNBBT, CNBF, CLS


".....and I said to the horse: Trust no man in whose eyes you do not see yourself reflected as an equal."
Don Vincenzo Giobbe
CA. 1700

"What people do not appreciate is that every time a horse submits to...
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 04 Sep 2010 10:21 #84

  • Mike Ferrara
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Rachael Kane wrote:
On a political note, if we were to run out of cheap oil and horse transport became more viable again, these BUAs would really have to step up their marketing! Although I'm sure they would still swear by their BS about lameness being just a transitional thing. If or when, I look forward to that day in many ways - I would love to see us all getting around in carts.

I think there were a lot of barefoot horses back when horses were really used. Of course, the streets were asphalt and the horses that couldn't handle the work were eaten.
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 04 Sep 2010 22:59 #85

  • Rachael Kane
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...and the horses that couldn't handle the work were eaten.

Sounds like a win-win - full tummies and breeding for soundness.:D
Rachael :)
CF

'Motivation gets you going, discipline keeps you going.' (Jim Ryan).
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 07 Nov 2010 18:50 #86

  • Peters Shoeing
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Honestly, to revisit the subject, what is up with the 3 week trimming? I understand a 3 or 4 week shoeing cycle for therapeutics or high-performance horses, but 3 week trims? Do you guys do that?

Some of my newer seasonal clients are like, "so and so was trimming my horse every 3 weeks, so can you come back in 3 weeks?" I'm confused by it because I just dont think it's necessary at all. It's like, ok, sure, I'll clean up the hooves for my regular trim price. In fact, 60% of the horses on this 3-week schedule that I see are over-trimmed and have problems. About 25% of those horses need shoes and hoof rebuilding because there is just not enough hoof to hold a shoe. I see the trimmers creating HUGE scallops in between the 4 points. It's bizzare. The weight distribution is so unbalanced IMO. And, the amount of square toe, what is up with that? Looks like they used an angle grinder and who knows, they may have. I use a buffy to prep for any vettec, but that's it.

I had someone today ask me if I follow Strasser/Jackson and when I said no, they were pretty hesistant. It's some brainwashing for sure. They kept asking me who I follow, I said I guess I kind of agree with some aspects of the natural balance trimming, but what the heck? It's a trim, not a space shuttle launch. Not every horse does well on that trim and I just do not trim horses like that. Hahaa. There ya have it. What about you guys?
Alan Peters
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 07 Nov 2010 18:58 #87

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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We have a guy here who insists on trimming all horses every two weeks, if you don't stay on his schedule you pay extra. If you go to long he won't work for you. That's just what I've heard, but it just sounds crazy to me.

I have some horses on a 4 week schedule for trims but they grow pretty fast and don't move much. Most barefoot horses that are ridden are on 6 weeks and are pretty much just clean ups. I have worked on some founders barefoot and done 1 week trims for a bit then 2 weeks for a bit more and out to 4 weeks as soon as possible. It works.

I think trimming too often is detrimental, the person doing the work has to figure out how to read each horse and the feet and adjust accordingly, not go by a book or some guru's mantra.
Ben Sturman
AFA CF #7558

Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 07 Nov 2010 19:09 #88

  • reillyshoe
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Peter,
You hit on one aspect of the barefoot mantra that I think has merit. Let's face it- hoof growth makes all of our work obsolete eventually. Even Smitty's work would look bad if you leave the shoes on long enough. One study found the strain of the DDFT on the navicular bone required to initiate breakover on a front limb increased by 13% over an 8 week shoeing cycle (but changed by only 1.9% on a hind foot, further demonstrating a problem with growth as it does not necessarily affect front and hind limbs in the same way).

Of course, shoeing a horse every week just doesn't make sense. The real question becomes when does "ideal" meet "practical". Should we shoe a horse every other week? We have the potential to turn a hoof into a pin cushion, compromising the integrity of the hoof by filling it up with nail holes. One premise of a six week shoeing cycle is the balance of these two needs- enough growth to use new nail holes and frequent enough to minimize the effects of growth.

From a barefoot perspective, the limiting factor becomes financial. Should the owner have the trimmer out every week? Every other day? That would be cost prohibitive. Farriers often arrange trimming on the same cycle as shoeing- every 6 weeks. To be fair, if we suggest trimming every 3 weeks, I would feel like I was ripping the owner off, as I would rarely use my nippers and be done in a few passes of the rasp.

In my opinion, the more frequent trimming cycle does help to improve a hoof (to a bit of my surprise). Is it enough to make a difference on every horse? That, in my opinion, is a question for the owner to decide. I explain the facts and let the owner decide if a short cycle is possible. In your case, as the clients are accustomed to arranging hoofcare on a short cycle, I would continue the pattern if the owners prefer.
P
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 07 Nov 2010 19:41 #89

  • smitty88
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Patrick i like between 5-7 weeks to work on most horses
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Barefooters Taking Over again? Shoeing clients turned barefoot? 07 Nov 2010 22:56 #90

Trimming every 2 weeks, huh?

The upside: you could make a decent living with only 60 horses.

The downside: It might be hard to find that many suckers in close proximity to where you live.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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