Mike Ferrara wrote:
That's where you take in so much more work to cover the costs, then the apprentice leaves you standing with more work than you can handle and then the bad rep of not showing up come about or you work yourself to a frazzle.

i am pretty fortunate that my mentor pays me well. however, i only work 1 day a week right now because of my full time job. and he really books the days i'm with him so i know i'm helping him and making him money (i hope).

I'm offering to work for him for the next 5 or 6 years if he'll take me full time next year.

dieselfarmer wrote:
Good for you!! Glad to hear you found a farrier to take you in. I would like to see the apprentice thing really take off in the States, I believe it would be a great advantage all the way around.

IMO you all have a valid point.It does suck when you take someone in-Add horses to cover the expenses then they leave(usually because they get a whole lot smarter than you)It's funny how over the last eight or so years it seems that I've crossed alot more guys that have been shoeing for two or three years and don't need nor want your help(knowledge),basically they're already to smart.I really have been seeing this more and more.When I was at that stage of my shoeing career I knew how much I did'nt know because my mentors reminded me constantly:). It's a shame

Very well said Tony, and the damn truth!

Being a newbie looking for someone to work with myself, I certainly think that 70-100 a day is fair. I would take that. Like you said, you are there mainly to learn, and of course pay some bills, so yeah I think that's fair. Maybe the longer they are with you and if they start making you money, then you could go to a percentage or whatever so the apprentice stays happy. Wish I was in Texas, I would jump at the chance to work for you

I was told the other day that a 1st year app was getting 118 sterling a week

and it does not go up to much in the 4 years in the UK

I think we need indentured servants. I wish the AFA would sponsor an indentured servant program. A CIS, or certified indentured servant, would be much better than an apprentice.

i have hired about 4 over the last year.. and all but one had been shoeing for money part time..the 3 i have used that where so called farriers only one knew that he needed some work..but he acted like he did so that he could just ride along and pass out cards while i loaded the truck.. none of them wanted any help...they had it all figured out...i have a kid thats 20 years old now ..he works as a vet tec at the local equine clinic...he has a wife and 2 kids so he is kinda mature...the draw back is he can only work 2days a week..i started paying him 20% of the take and he draws anywhere from 70 to 160 a day the average pay is about 100 a day..would love to get him full time but with the way things are im always scared to death to ask somone to stop a full time job...im also scared to death turn any clients away..i have been really lucky the last year and picked up many nice size barns..i have 3 days a week that i have where i go to 3 barns on certian day...its a shame none of the guys i hired did not work out because i could have passed on some nice clients....as it is i only have 2 days off a month and work like 12 to 16 hours a day..

I pay 60.oo- 70.00 a day and I buy lunch. But on tough days I will pay 125.00, or on the rare occasion a bit more. But I figure, I give them the option of working 7 days a week or they can take off the weekend and I will do it myself. So even on the low end if you just said 60 a day, thats 420 a week, cash. Plus I set them up with a few small trimming accounts to do on the side. Plus if they need more than that, to pay a debt they have or whatever, I find something around the house that needs work or repair and pay them for it. Inevitably though they at some point start thinking they deserve more. I have a guy that has been with me for 7 or 8 months now, and there are signs the honeymoon is about over, when they start making comments. Here is what isn't understood. It is not understood because I am too friendly and too nice a guy to really emphasize it, but this is not a partnership, its more like a dictatorship, lol. These are my accounts, not our accounts. I have a lot of time and money invested and you have the shirt on your back. Its hard to find good help locally. One day I will purchase a house trailer or something so that I can house someone who has been to school and who is passionate about learning rather than passionate about money.

Travis Reed wrote:
Do you think it's because they're young or just in too much of a hurry?

I've only had two guys work for me and it was many years ago. One was fresh out of school, already thought he knew everything and was pretty much useless. The other was an experience farrier who had just moved into the area and that was WAY more trouble than it was worth.

I still work with other guys sometimes, most notable, my original teacher. It makes for an enjoyable day and I still learn a lot. When working on their accounts, it seems like a no-brainer to keep your mouth shut (especially when the client is around) and do what you're told, how you're told to do it. I sure wouldn't think of passing out cards at somebody else's account.

It's hard to remember back to when I was just starting out the first time but this all seems like common sense though I was probably in a hurry to make the "big bucks" too.

i agree rick...and if the guy i have now does not work out i will fix living area in one of the barns or out building a will only take in what folks that when done and wanna go the head back home...the trim accounts i will turn over to this guy ..he will use my back up rig and keep up with what was done and i will do the billing...i have often thought if when we take someone on can we do a no compete contract..

Trav, I don't care about the competition aspect of it. I don't want to shoe for anyone that doesn't seem to realize that they need me more than I need them. That sounds conceded, but its just supply and demand. There is no need to put up with much junk when supply and demand is heavily in our favor. If someone were to choose to use another guy, it just frees up a spot for a more loyal client. I would wish the other fellow good luck with them, whether its a local farrier, a friend, or an ex-employee. There is plenty to go around, and my nose doesn't get bent out of shape very easily. I want my book to consist of owners with whom I jive, if they don't jive with me then maybe they can jive elsewhere. Low stress, I like happy people, lol. But we can solve this dang helper issue thing right now. You just move over here to God's country and we can do a partnership and we can let go of these helpers, lol.

Mike I think some of both..bad part was the client called me after I left the farm and said travis don't bring that guy back..I thought he had done said something out of the way to the trainer/owner..I could not dream of passing out a card for any reason.. I'm just really frustrated with haveing the work and not able to find any good help..I'm worried to thin clients out because I have been without work before and that is awful and don't wanna be like that again ...so I work long hours..I feel my area is full of great farriers so I try to go above and beyond service if that means getting out of bed at 2am or driving 2 states over to shoe one horse that's at a trainers..I find they don't mind paying but they want service and for the most part work ethic is gone among folks...I always felt I was good help i.. I always felt I shut my hole and new my role and spoke when spoke to...I'm sure I did not do all things right but it was cause I did not know..while working with a gaited shoer one time I sugested welding up nail holes the client over heard me and loved that idea..lol.. I still hear about that to this day that was 10 years ago..lol..It did not happen agian

I was going to ask this question a few times but never did.. how many farriers pay their apprentices at all?

So far I just trim horses, and watch when there are horses to be shod. Pull shoes, clean them up, make minor adjustments,clinch and finish, etc. I've gotten to the point where most of the trims I do don't need 'fixing', and only a few need minor adjustments. I'm pretty proud of myself when a trim I do passes inspection but I know I've only scratched the surface of what there is still to learn. I did finish farrier school before I started my apprenticeship, so I didn't start from scratch.

I don't get paid, just free lunches. My mentor hasn't taken on any big accounts since Ive been riding with him so it's not like I'm making him extra money, so I understand not being paid. I haven't asked to be paid, but won't turn money down when I feels that Ive deserved it. I'm happy to have found someone with the patience to teach me what he knows.