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TOPIC: What does it cost you?

RE:What does it cost you? 16 Mar 2010 16:41 #91

  • Travis Reed
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chad are u going to the clinic in April...sorry off topic
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:What does it cost you? 16 Mar 2010 18:25 #92

  • George Geist
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
the fire department doesn't allow that here; unless you have a separate professional building away from other houses in the neighborhood, I live in suburbia, not on a farm anymore.
And you've tried this how many times? Never mind, is a lame excuse especially considering you go to hammer ins every month where you can easily practice

ladyblacksmith wrote:
I was brought up that hand-mades cost $500 to shoe!
You were misinformed. Not even Ralph Casey gets that much for shoeing. Basic rule of business is you mark up whatever you buy at least double whatever you paid for it. Most of the guys on here by their own admission are charging about $20 for bar shoes. That's what their paying for them. Not a one of them is charging enough they're giving them away.

ladyblacksmith wrote:

just bought #0-#1 delta steel barshoes for $10 ea.
just bought #0-#1 JB aluminum wedge barshoes for $13 ea.
and bought #0 JB aluminum barshoe for $10 ea.

Total cost: $155.00 for these shoes pre-made. I charge a good price for putting them on. Hand-mades cost more money.

linda muggleworth, iujh
According to what you just listed I only see $122. Was there something you didn't include? Hand made bars cost much less as has been previously pointed out to you not just by me but by clinicians you've seen as well. Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg7-DQHi6Gc&feature=related
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:What does it cost you? 16 Mar 2010 20:25 #93

George Geist wrote:
And you've tried this how many times? Never mind, is a lame excuse especially considering you go to hammer ins every month where you can easily practice

You were misinformed. Not even Ralph Casey gets that much for shoeing. Basic rule of business is you mark up whatever you buy at least double whatever you paid for it. Most of the guys on here by their own admission are charging about $20 for bar shoes. That's what their paying for them. Not a one of them is charging enough they're giving them away.

According to what you just listed I only see $122. Was there something you didn't include? Hand made bars cost much less as has been previously pointed out to you not just by me but by clinicians you've seen as well. Here you go:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg7-DQHi6Gc&feature=related
George

hey george only at the hammer-in 12 times per year, haven't been since nov. 09..Jan was for the clinic only. Feb snowed out. I will be there this Sat. 20th. dear:rolleyes:

It's priced at $500+ for any type of hand-mades; and that is for "my time" only; george; and no one asked me to put them on! either.
guys here charge $400 for glue-ons here! or $200 a hoof.

It's different if pre-made barshoes and I do charge more than most guys around here.
Last one was $170. plain jane. nothing else.
I have 1 client that I charge $100 for barshoes up front/trim behind.
$100 for one heartbar shoe put on that racehorse and
$130 for aluminum KB-N1 eggbar/KB-1T & trim behind for the other lame racehorse at fair hill.
He's back into training and not lame no more.

the bill was $155 so maybe a mistake on part or added something; or forgot an extra barshoe not on the list.

hey, I am not giving my work away..period; and besides; I am way more cuter than Ralph Casey:D

love linda
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RE:What does it cost you? 16 Mar 2010 21:49 #94

  • Gary_Miller
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George Geist wrote:
Basic rule of business is you mark up whatever you buy at least double whatever you paid for it. Most of the guys on here by their own admission are charging about $20 for bar shoes. That's what their paying for them. Not a one of them is charging enough they're giving them away.
George, where did you get this rule of buisness from?

Most Service Business do not charge double for materials used, looking at any bill you get from a auto repair buisness, plumber, etc. will verify this. Parts are usually listed separately form labor costs.

Service buisness make their money off of their labor/shop costs, usually called a shop/labor rate. Shop/labor rates take into consideration all the costs of doing buisness, minus parts/materials purchase for a specific job. Included in a shop/labor rates is whats called overhead, overhead covers costs that are hard to capture on a single bill. Expandable items where you may not use the whole batch on any single job, such as nails, glue, hoof packing, etc.. Shop/Labor rates can be hourly rates or set for a specific service.

For my buisness my rates are set for a specific service. For example I charge different prices for Trims, Half shoeing, Full shoeing (shoe size under #4s), Full shoeing (shoe size 4s and above), using regular steel keg shoes. On top of these shoeing prices are additional charges for materials used, such as pads, specialty shoes, hoof packing, ect.. When it comes to materials I charge the cost of the material, including sales tax, rounded up to the nearest 5 dollars for ease of figuring the bill.

Thats why I say when figuring the cost of handmade shoes you should figure in the time it takes to make the shoe as that time is usually not figured into the charge for the specific service.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
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RE:What does it cost you? 16 Mar 2010 22:05 #95

  • Anthony_Lawrence
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ladyblacksmith wrote:
...and besides; I am way more cuter than Ralph Casey:D

love linda
Any piccies? :D:D:D
Ant.
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RE:What does it cost you? 16 Mar 2010 22:40 #96

Gary
Most business do (what is called Keystone) products that is double the cost if you are not doubling the cost of your extras well that is your business but where are you making up for your labor cost $5.00 is not much when you cut a pair of pads out, or any other extra unless it is only taking the total of 60 seconds to complete the task from start to finish then that would be OK 5X60=300 per hour charged.
There are certain products I use a triple mark up on, sorry I shoe horses to make a living. And doing it cheap is not what I want to be known for. I want to be Known for doing the best job possible at any given time and the extra cost is for having to carry inventory a cost of doing business. In this industry I see a lot of spectacular Farriers but really bad business men and women and they end up ether not making a very good living or worse end up in another profession. This work take its toll on your body over time and you better make the MOST of it while you can. Most farriers that I come in contact with have little if any retirement or savings. One the biggest problem I see is not that they need more work but they just do not charge for what they are worth.I will work on horses at the clinic and the client will come back and say that there farrier would have only charged them 1/4 to 1/2 of what I charged them. and the only answer to that is have your farrier give me a call and if he or she is any good I will keep them busy and still charge what I do and pay them less and keep the rest for myself. I know that I am opening a can of worms but so be it. This was typed fast so I hope it come across correctly.
In life your work is your signature, try to sign with elegance and grace.
You do not have to be the best just care the most.
John Muldoon
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 00:28 #97

  • Dogwood Forge
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mmhorseshoeing wrote:
Gary
Most business do (what is called Keystone) products that is double the cost if you are not doubling the cost of your extras well that is your business but where are you making up for your labor cost $5.00 is not much when you cut a pair of pads out, or any other extra unless it is only taking the total of 60 seconds to complete the task from start to finish then that would be OK 5X60=300 per hour charged.
There are certain products I use a triple mark up on, sorry I shoe horses to make a living. And doing it cheap is not what I want to be known for. I want to be Known for doing the best job possible at any given time and the extra cost is for having to carry inventory a cost of doing business. In this industry I see a lot of spectacular Farriers but really bad business men and women and they end up ether not making a very good living or worse end up in another profession. This work take its toll on your body over time and you better make the MOST of it while you can. Most farriers that I come in contact with have little if any retirement or savings. One the biggest problem I see is not that they need more work but they just do not charge for what they are worth.I will work on horses at the clinic and the client will come back and say that there farrier would have only charged them 1/4 to 1/2 of what I charged them. and the only answer to that is have your farrier give me a call and if he or she is any good I will keep them busy and still charge what I do and pay them less and keep the rest for myself. I know that I am opening a can of worms but so be it. This was typed fast so I hope it come across correctly.


Not a bad point. There is a guy that doesn't live to far from me that has shod horses since he was a teenager. He is still trying to shoe 1 or 2 a day even though he is 63 now. His average price for 4 shoes is from 45 to 65 dollars. He will tell you that to charge more than that is robbery. (That statement is somewhat ironic coming from this guy considering I know many people that he has cheated and stole from over the years, including his own children.) This guy in his day always worked full time help and did a pile of horses. There is no telling the money he made over the years even working as cheep as he did. Today he is broke. He doesn't own his home, he doesn't have any retirement, he doesn't even have a savings account. Now he is to cripple to really shoe any more. It is a sad case. One of the reasons I started this tread about "how much does it cost you" is because I was looking at last years numbers trying to project for this coming year how much my wife and I could put back for retirement. Your back has only so many horses in it and when you get to that number you are done. You better spend your health and your youth wisely.
Chip Crumbly CJF, AWCF
http://www.georgiafarriers.org/
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 02:00 #98

  • Jay Mickle
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Dogwood Forge wrote:
He is still trying to shoe 1 or 2 a day even though he is 63 now.

I'm still trying to shoe 1 or 2/day but my customers won't let me slow down. Lucky him!
Jay Mickle
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 03:43 #99

  • Gary_Miller
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mmhorseshoeing wrote:
Most business do (what is called Keystone) products that is double the cost
Keystone pricing is a pricing method, where the wholesale price is doubled to resell. It is a common pricing system because of its ease of use, and it allows reasonable profit margins.

How many farriers, or other service based buisness, do you know that are purchasing their materials wholesale. I would say none unless they also own a supply house.

Using Keystone pricing on items purchase retail would triple the cost of the product/material/part. Thats way I just pass on the cost of material plus a small handling fee.


mmhorseshoeing wrote:
if you are not doubling the cost of your extras well that is your business
I tend to treat my customers, as I would like to be treated, fairly. I'm not here to gouge my customers.

mmhorseshoeing wrote:
but where are you making up for your labor cost $5.00 is not much when you cut a pair of pads out, or any other extra
I also charge additional costs for the extra labor required as well. It goes over allot better with customers if they can see a price brake out on the bill.

mmhorseshoeing wrote:
There are certain products I use a triple mark up on, sorry I shoe horses to make a living.
I do to thats why my income comes from the service I provide and not from the sell of materials used to provide that service.

mmhorseshoeing wrote:
I want to be Known for doing the best job possible at any given time and the extra cost is for having to carry inventory a cost of doing business.
Fare enough.

mmhorseshoeing wrote:
In this industry I see a lot of spectacular Farriers but really bad business men and women and they end up ether not making a very good living or worse end up in another profession.
Thats why this is a good discussion. Leaning how others price out their buisness has really helped me in setting the pricing for the services I offer. I also try and keep track of what others in the area are charging so I don't price myself out of work while at the same time trying to stay competitive. I try to keep my pricing at slightly above average for the area.

mmhorseshoeing wrote:
This was typed fast so I hope it come across correctly.
It did. Very good points. Thanks.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 12:29 #100

Anthony_Lawrence wrote:
Any piccies? :D:D:D

yes, and on horseshoes;)........
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 14:00 #101

Gary
it sounds like you end up with the same results by adding service charges it is easier for my business when billing to just say the "shoes or Pads" cost so much, than adding a service charge ether way you end up with the same results and you can think of it as (gouging) on service charges then.:confused:
All any of us want is to make an honest wage to feed our family's and why am i not allowed to make as much as other professions that do half the work that we do?
In life your work is your signature, try to sign with elegance and grace.
You do not have to be the best just care the most.
John Muldoon
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 15:03 #102

  • chris bunting
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sorry folks,who is ralph casey?
chris
common sense is not needed when you have rules
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 15:03 #103

  • Gary_Miller
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mmhorseshoeing wrote:
Gary
it sounds like you end up with the same results by adding service charges it is easier for my business when billing to just say the "shoes or Pads" cost so much, than adding a service charge ether way you end up with the same results and you can think of it as (gouging) on service charges then.:confused:
Yep the same results just arrived at differently. You bring up some good points, maybe I will rethink how I'm doing it.

mmhorseshoeing wrote:
All any of us want is to make an honest wage to feed our family's and why am i not allowed to make as much as other professions
Who says you aren't? Your prices should be set so as to make a good living while providing your the types of benefits one might have if they were employed full time working for someone else.

The problem I see is that due to the differences in pricing among Farriers there is a point where the market starts to dictate how high the pricing can go. Causing the average mean pricing to be to low to make a good wage.

Much of this is due to farriers who don't know/care what it really costs to do a job. These type of farrier usually have benefits provided by another job or some other source. So their prices are set at level much lower than what is needed to provide these benefits for themselves.

When this happens farriers who need to provide benefits for themselves end up working longer hours. In order to make the wage necessary to provide the benefits. By benefits I mean things like, health care, retirement, paid vacation time and sick time, etc.

The solution to this is for farriers in an area to talk to each other about pricing. And adjust their individual prices so that they are not substantially undercutting each other. So that the average mean price in the area can support a good wage, which will provide benefits, on a five day eight hour work week.

Talking/sharing pricing is one thing that I have found farriers do not like to do.

mmhorseshoeing wrote:
other professions that do half the work that we do?
I'm not sure about the "half the work we do" statement. It seems that some people in this occupation feel we work harder than other service type occupations. Thats simply not true we just do different work. Which I have found is not really any more taxing physically than other occupations that require bending, lifting, and working with hand tools.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 15:12 #104

  • Gary_Miller
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chris bunting wrote:
sorry folks,who is ralph casey?
chris
Ralph Casey is the President of the Brotherhood of Worshipful Farriers Association (BWFA). He also has a farrier school and a farrier research center here in the states as well as a Horseshoeing show called "Shoing Time".

If you search his name on this site you will find some information about his school and center as well as some posts from Ralph.

Also a goggle search will bring up information.

I think there is a link to his site in the Farrier Associations page.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:What does it cost you? 17 Mar 2010 15:31 #105

Gary_Miller wrote:
Ralph Casey is the President of the Brotherhood of Worshipful Farriers Association (BWFA). He also has a farrier school and a farrier research center here in the states as well as a Horseshoeing show called "Shoing Time".

If you search his name on this site you will find some information about his school and center as well as some posts from Ralph.

Also a goggle search will bring up information.

I think there is a link to his site in the Farrier Associations page.

Gary, it's the Brotherhood of Working Farriers Association

don't worry; you're not the one with birthday just yet!

linda
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