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TOPIC: What does it cost you?

RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 02:42 #16

  • Gary_Miller
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GiddyapGirl wrote:
Yeah Yeah I know I'm gonna hear all that bullpucky about passing the cost of purchased specialty shoes on to the customer. Well how about this? Pass that cost on to the customer and MAKE some money by putting what you saved in your own pocket!
When you figure in your time and materials needed to make a pair of bar shoes. You can purchase them allot cheaper.


GiddyapGirl wrote:
Don't know how you spent your afternoon but I spent mine in the fire, used the leftover snow to cool the tongs.:D
I spent mine with my wife and son.
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 02:46 #17

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Dogwood Forge wrote:
I appreciate the response from everybody. I do order my supplies in bulk. I buy my nails and my rasps by the case and I haven't bought shoes since last May. I make my own bar shoes and most specialty shoes. It is funny that the longer I shoe I seem to carry less stuff on my truck. I like to see the different ideas from everyone. It helps me to see things from angles that I may not have seen or thought of before.

Chip read this article by Ray Miller. It breaks things down pretty well and then you can adapt the info to your situation.

http://www.saddlefitting.net/articles/truecostofshoeing.html
Ben Sturman
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 02:47 #18

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It must be me or the area I work in , but when I do need to use barshoes of anytype I usually find that the foot is kinda compromised in some way? That is why store bought prepunched barshoes are like prepunched sliders. They look nice but if you need to adjust them like I need to do, they do not seem to do as well as a handmade of that type. :)
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 02:51 #19

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I don't buy in bulk. I prefer to let the supply house be my Warehouse. That way I don't have allot of overhead that I'm not using tying up my money.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

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"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 03:01 #20

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Gary_Miller wrote:
When you figure in your time and materials needed to make a pair of bar shoes. You can purchase them allot cheaper.

I think that depends more on who's making the bar shoes. With practice and proficiency a pair a bar shoes can be done in less than forty minutes by me and I'm not that good. A couple of dollars of steel, a couple of dollars of propane, a beer or two, my son with me working to or playing close (me to in between heats), getting practice for the journeyman test, and saving some money. Then charging the same as the store boughts and making a little more profit for putting in the extra effort. I've saved money, made money, spent time with my son (my wife works evenings so it works real well), furthered my skill and business, and enjoyed every minute of it. Tell me what's so bad about that?

I just talked with Jason Maki a little while ago on FB and we were saying how much this profession and the world have become a gotta have it right now style living environment. Jason was talking about how his hard work, dedication, sacrifice, and will to succeed put him exactly where he wants to be doing what he wants to be doing and it didn't happen by taking short cuts or doing things from prepackaged prefitted models.

Yes you can buy things, save time, make money, blah blah blah. But what about learning how to do it from scratch and getting good enough to do the same job in a reasonable amount of time and make the same or more money? It can be done and still have a life if you have the heart, drive, try, and will. Oh, and a family who understands your a bit nuts but loves you anyway.

It's an "To each his own" kind of deal. Some want to buy things, some want to make them. If they get to the same point for the horse, make money doing it, and are happy, what the hecks the big deal?:rolleyes:
Ben Sturman
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Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 03:40 #21

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I think a lot of the cost Chip is talking about are the things we don't usually see - I think what David is proposing, an online plug and play type of excell spread sheet would be kind of interesting. Having someone set it up and then we could just plug in our own numbers is a great idea. Do you think it is possible Baron? I know this same subject has started to nag at me a bit. This is why I am starting to keep better track, and more often looking at the numbers to see exactly where I am.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

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What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 04:32 #22

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Ben, I would guess the average Farrier makes around $100 an hour when they are working, don't think you can sell a pair of bar shoes for that.

When it comes to the buisness end of things its important to remember your time is money. If you can't produce and sell it, for at least what you can purchase it for, then you have lost money.

Don't get me wrong. Knowing how forge what you may need is important and practice is an important part of the learning process.

You can't always buy what you may need, sometimes it has to be manufactured.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 13:05 #23

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Gary_Miller wrote:
When you figure in your time and materials needed to make a pair of bar shoes. You can purchase them allot cheaper.

Maybe for you.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 13:50 #24

I figure I gross about $70 per hour ( I'm slow )

Hand made bar shoes, pair:

Steel: 2.00
Gas : 5.00
Time : 70.00
Additional customer charge: -20.00
Total (loss): 57.00

Purchased bar shoes: 30.00
Additional customer charge: 30.00
Total: 0.00

skill development, savings to customer ( good will ), image enhancement, both to self and client: PRICELESS

Additionally, you don't need to tie up additional money in inventory, or have to say "I'll be back in a week" .

And we have to face the grim fact that we just like making these things, even though the hard dollars aren't there.

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 14:16 #25

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A store bought bar shoe is nothing more than a bar welded in a keg shoe. I can fit the shoes to the feet and mig weld a bar in from a piece of scrap barstock that would otherwise be thrown away in 15 min. If you weld it properly there will be no more grinding than normal. If you take time off the 15 min. for fitting which has to be done anyways no matter what shoe you use your probably down to say 7 min barshoes. At $100 an hour that comes out to an $11.66 pair of bar shoes, not counting the cost of the keg shoe because you were going to use one anyway. You charge $30 for the barshoes and you just made an extra $18.34.

Handmades should be charged on an hourly rate or you are loosing money, we can all buy any shoe cheaper than we can make it if we count propane, tools, etc. into the cost, but it is fun and makes us better at our jobs.
Justin Decker

"As I see it, good enough is never good enough, it's just an excuse for mediocrity. If every shoeing ain't worth your best shot, you're just going through the motions." Tom Stovall, CJF
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 14:26 #26

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Gary Hill wrote:
It must be me or the area I work in , but when I do need to use barshoes of anytype I usually find that the foot is kinda compromised in some way? That is why store bought prepunched barshoes are like prepunched sliders. They look nice but if you need to adjust them like I need to do, they do not seem to do as well as a handmade of that type. :)
This is true. Proper fitting is often a problem. I'd disagree that they look nice. Most of them are pretty crude and roughly finished, certainly nowhere near worth their cost.

Western Hill Forge wrote:
I figure I gross about $70 per hour ( I'm slow )

Hand made bar shoes, pair:

Steel: 2.00
Gas : 5.00
Time : 70.00
Additional customer charge: -20.00
Total (loss): 57.00

Purchased bar shoes: 30.00
Additional customer charge: 30.00
Total: 0.00

skill development, savings to customer ( good will ), image enhancement, both to self and client: PRICELESS

Additionally, you don't need to tie up additional money in inventory, or have to say "I'll be back in a week" .

And we have to face the grim fact that we just like making these things, even though the hard dollars aren't there.

Regards
All true. When yours truly was at the track we got about the same for bars as for a shoeing job. Figure it took about a half hour to get one shod and it took about that long to make a pair of bars. Therefore it doubled the price of a shoeing job. By time and labor we thought it fair. Seems whole problem here is not too many guys charge what they should for these things.

Yes, $20-$30 for inferior shoes compared to $2 in steel for a good high quality pair is pretty foolish. And yes Western you're right, no self respecting horseshoer uses store bought bar shoes.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 15:19 #27

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cuttinshoer wrote:
Maybe for you.
Crunch your numbers see what you come up with.

Here's what I came up with.

#1 straight bar - Clipped

Labor: 40 min = $80 (the price of two trims)
Bar stock: 2ft = $2
Flux: 1oz = $1
Propane: 1/2 gal = $1
Misc overhead = $1 (tool wear, forge line wear, ect.)

Total cost per pair to make = $85

Cost to purchase, Kerckhaert #1 straight bar - Clipped = $18

The biggest problem is most don't want to figure in their labor costs.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 15:31 #28

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cuttinshoer wrote:
A store bought bar shoe is nothing more than a bar welded in a keg shoe. I can fit the shoes to the feet and mig weld a bar in from a piece of scrap barstock that would otherwise be thrown away in 15 min. If you weld it properly there will be no more grinding than normal. If you take time off the 15 min. for fitting which has to be done anyways no matter what shoe you use your probably down to say 7 min barshoes.
Justin, it takes longer than 7 mins to pull out and set up the the welder, cut the steel to be welded, weld it, then put the welder back.

cuttinshoer wrote:
but it is fun and makes us better at our jobs.
Western Hill Forge wrote:
skill development, savings to customer ( good will ), image enhancement, both to self and client: PRICELESS

And we have to face the grim fact that we just like making these things, even though the hard dollars aren't there.

Most people use this statement as a justification for not charging what the true cost is.

Why do you thing auto mechanics replace parts instead of fixing them?

This is a business and if you don't treat is as one you are on the slippery road to failure.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 15:50 #29

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Western Hill Forge wrote:
Additionally, you don't need to tie up additional money in inventory, or have to say "I'll be back in a week" .
Being that you have to have inventory anyway, a pair of each size (00,0,1,2) is not going to brake the bank, and if your in a pinch you can just jump weld a bar on keg shoe.

If you really think about it. Unless you do therapeutic shoeing. How many bar shoes does the average farrier apply in a months time, where they didn't know they needed the shoe ahead of time.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:What does it cost you? 12 Mar 2010 16:40 #30

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Gary_Miller wrote:
Being that you have to have inventory anyway, a pair of each size (00,0,1,2) is not going to brake the bank, and if your in a pinch you can just jump weld a bar on keg shoe.

If you really think about it. Unless you do therapeutic shoeing. How many bar shoes does the average farrier apply in a months time, where they didn't know they needed the shoe ahead of time.

That's the question - how long are those barshoes going to ride around and will you ever use them? If you don't use them, it is wasted money. For me it is better business to build a barshoe on the spot if the horse is going to use it only a time or two, but if the horse needs it all the time, so then buy it as you know the size then. I don't tie up space and money on stuff to ride around.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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