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TOPIC: Guarantying shoes??

RE:Guarantying shoes?? 20 Apr 2010 20:09 #16

  • Jay Mickle
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Nate Crumley wrote:
i do have clients 4 hours from my house. for them, i let them know that there will be a trip charge if i have to come in between my regularly scheduled visits,

What is a trip charge for an 8 hour round trip??
Jay Mickle
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 27 Apr 2010 20:03 #17

  • Dan Puckett
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I just tell people to give me a call if anything happens. I then explain to them that keeping shoes on is NOT my #1 concern, a sound horse is. If I feel a horse needs a little extra support, I'll give it to him. I then bring the owner over, show him/her the foot, and explain why I fit the shoe that way. "Now, he has a little more shoe than what is considered 'normal' due to xyz. He may keep the shoe on, he may not. If he loses it, I'll come back and we can re-evaluate things and make necessary adjustments. If it stays on, I'll see you in 6 weeks." Sometimes I have to compromise a little to keep the shoe on, but I still dont do the super tight 8-5CH-nails-in-a-12"-foot fit.

Dan
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 28 Apr 2010 13:06 #18

  • chris bunting
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keeping shoes on a sound horse is of a serious concern to me .losing a shoe hours before running or competing can have serious consequences to all concerned. it can ruin names ,reputations and big big money. tomorrow for most of my clientel is not on the agenda
chris
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 10 May 2010 23:10 #19

  • Show Shoe
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I go to most of my barns once a week so if I'm there I'll pop it on for free if it needs a new shoe or I have to make a special trip out I charge. I usually tell people when they ask that if you get a flat tire on your car they wont replace it for free that seems to make them see it my way.
Jeremy Lacroix
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 17 May 2010 22:57 #20

  • Dan Puckett
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chris bunting- point taken.

But, keeping shoes on a sound horse isnt normally an issue. I was referring more to the carpal valgus, toed out horse whose pastern inserts into his hoof capsule to the medial side of center. I fit him with some extra support on the inside (a little more than a "C" fit by AFA standards) to help balance out the load bearing on the capsule. He has lost a shoe now and then, but I went back and re-evaluated what I did, reshod him, and overall, the owner says he's doing better since I started shoeing his horses.
Dan Puckett, CF
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 01 Sep 2010 01:40 #21

Nate Crumley wrote:
i loose maybe 6 shoes a year. usually it is on the horses that are at 7 weeks. i figure if my percentage rate is that good then i should be able to keep all shoes on, and wont charge to tack one on. i shoe very full and usually have a bit of heel, i do not shoe tight. i tell my clients this is how i shoe, and i expect to lose a shoe once in awhile. if a horse loses one, give me a call and i will over asap. then i might close the shoe up a bit.

i do have clients 4 hours from my house. for them, i let them know that there will be a trip charge if i have to come in between my regularly scheduled visits, which is every two weeks. nobody has a problem with either waiting or paying the trip charge.

so yes, i guarantee my shoeing.
I need you to show me how you do it I lost six shoes this week! Big warmbloods stomping flies and night time turn out I hate it!
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[URL="http://www.****tube.com/video/34846/caroline-oguma-***-video"]CAROLINE OGUMA[/URL]
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 01 Sep 2010 03:57 #22

  • Mark_Gough
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Jeff Denson wrote:
I need you to show me how you do it I lost six shoes this week! Big warmbloods stomping flies and night time turn out I hate it!

Summer time flies and associated pasture behavior can easily translate to lost shoes. Recently lost a four horse client because I couldn't dial the horses in quick enough. Prior farrier 8 nailed, short shod and fit so tight you couldn't see the shoe when the horse stood on level ground. Now I know why he did that.

Lesson learned. If they spend herd time in the pastures, presume a hunter fit, clipped front and rear. All the "proper" caudal support in the world isn't worth spit if you lose the client because the horse pulls a shoe. With some clients, you might not get many chances before they show you the door.

The AFA has stringent certification requirements for proper shoeing. I've found that client expectations are comparatively different, simple and generally consistent in priority.

1. Work is generally affordable (cheap).
2. Shoes stay on a full 6 to 24 weeks. :rolleyes:
3. You can preferably trim and shoe all around in about 45 minutes or less.

A lot of clients are likely to know more about the mating habits of the South American swamp rat than they do about what constitutes proper farriery. They just want to ride. Shoeing the horse is a necessary toll charge and the shoes better stay on no matter what.

True of all owners? Absolutely not! I've got some great clients. It's the other 90% that can be a bit more challenging.

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 01 Sep 2010 04:04 #23

  • Anthony_Lawrence
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Jeff Denson wrote:
I need you to show me how you do it I lost six shoes this week! Big warmbloods stomping flies and night time turn out I hate it!

My area is in the middle of the wettest season for 30 years and New Zealanders are pathologically averse to stables/yards. Everything must be turned out all the time... it's natural don't you know! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

When I first arrived in NZ I wondered why everything was short shod; it didn't take long to figure out.:eek::eek:
Ant.
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 01 Sep 2010 04:55 #24

  • Bill Adams
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I offer a four foot guarantee. If I move the truck four feet, you're on your own.
That said, I play it by ear. I was much more flexible years ago, but now I at least get a twenty for gas.

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 01 Sep 2010 09:55 #25

Mark_Gough wrote:
1. Work is generally affordable (cheap).
2. Shoes stay on a full 6 to 24 weeks. :rolleyes:
3. You can preferably trim and shoe all around in about 45 minutes or less.

True of all owners? Absolutely not! I've got some great clients. It's the other 90% that can be a bit more challenging.

Mark,

You are quite erudite and write exceedingly well. I think this masked the fact to me anyway that you are new to this business. Over time you will build up a client base of good customers. It will take from 5 to 7 years like any other business to get your farrier business established and fill a book of good customers. Most business owners give up long before 5 years. To succeed takes persistance and stubborness.

I have a full book of customers that I feel are the good ones. I am now at the 10 year point but the big turnaround was at 6 years.

1.) I am expensive
2.) I dont cheat the horse each shoe job is done to the best of my ability and with the interests of the horse's health first I do not use tricks to extend shoeing intervals like fishhooking in sideclips or short shoeing.
3.) each job takes the time it takes. 45 minutes be dammed.

So hang in there my friend.

Most of the time in life there are 2 courses of action. One is the easy path and one seems harder. My dad taught me when in doubt choose the difficult path as it is almost always the right one.
George Spear
CNBBT, CNBF, CLS


".....and I said to the horse: Trust no man in whose eyes you do not see yourself reflected as an equal."
Don Vincenzo Giobbe
CA. 1700

"What people do not appreciate is that every time a horse submits to...
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 01 Sep 2010 14:19 #26

  • Lori McBride
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Seems like when it rains it pours. I'll go for a good stretch with out losing any shoes and then seems I get a three calls in a week. :o :)


1. Work is generally affordable (cheap).
2. Shoes stay on a full 6 to 24 weeks.
3. You can preferably trim and shoe all around in about 45 minutes or
less.

Definitely still got a few of them on my books, but thankfully less and less. I am starting to realize that the type of client I want to work for understands that shoes coming off is something that happens, (and they would rather have a shoe come off every once and a while than have the problems that a short shoe will bring). I take my time and make sure the fit is right and watch the horse do the "cat walk" before and after.These types of clients are usually more than willing to pay me to come out and re place a missing shoe, but somehow I find that I don't mind just tacking the thing back on no charge. My long time customers know that I will come and put a shoe back on at no charge, but they still check. However I no longer actually "guaranty" shoes for six weeks, like some others in my area. I really liked what Mikel said earlier in this thread:
I've had people ask if I guarantee my work. I reply yes, I guarantee I do the best work possible.
Made good sense to me. So far it's been working!! :D
Lori McBride CF
McBride Horseshoeing

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Don't follow where the path may lead...........go where there is no path and leave a trail.
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 02 Sep 2010 01:43 #27

  • Peters Shoeing
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Mark_Gough wrote:

1. Work is generally affordable (cheap).
2. Shoes stay on a full 6 to 24 weeks. :rolleyes:
3. You can preferably trim and shoe all around in about 45 minutes or less.

Agreed. Some dont care what it could mean in terms of therapeutic solutions or better healing or more support. They want it cheap and they want it to stay on. With wide web or lateral support, of course, this can mean lost shoes.

Now about time spent, is it pretty much well known that most clients want you to be in and out in under an hour? Sometimes, it just cant be done. Most of my clients seem to like that I take my time, but maybe some clients dont like it and dont tell me. I guess it depends on the vibe. I will pay more attention. ;)

I warranty my work for 4 weeks, but after it happens once, I may charge them a trip fee, it depends. Ya know, they want it done that same day. Some will drop you so fast if you dont get out there within 24 hours.
Alan Peters
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 02 Sep 2010 01:56 #28

  • Peters Shoeing
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Dances with Hooves wrote:
2.) I dont cheat the horse each shoe job is done to the best of my ability and with the interests of the horse's health first I do not use tricks to extend shoeing intervals like fishhooking in sideclips or short shoeing.

What are these methods exactly, I've not heard of them? Why would any farrier even do that? A client that does not want to abide by the interval that their horse needs is just not a client anyone should want.

I have a barefoot account and the client told me she wants to skip this appointment because her horses are not yet due. I told her I would call her back in a week and she told me to call her back in six. If I do service her, I will probably charge for overdue farrier care. It's really never happened to me before where someone wanted to skip an entire cycle. I guess it happens and I think I should charge for that. How do you guys handle that?
Alan Peters
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 02 Sep 2010 02:54 #29

  • Gary Hill
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Alan, I charged some people by the quarter inch once that let their horses go really long and they decided to take them to a sale and HAD to have their feet done! I made 120 per head on 6 horses...when they were done the feet were the best part of the horses because their manes were all rubbed off and they were very under weight! Charge em until ya like em!:D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Guarantying shoes?? 02 Sep 2010 04:55 #30

  • Mark_Gough
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Peters Shoeing wrote:
Agreed. Some dont care what it could mean in terms of therapeutic solutions or better healing or more support. They want it cheap and they want it to stay on. With wide web or lateral support, of course, this can mean lost shoes.

Now about time spent, is it pretty much well known that most clients want you to be in and out in under an hour? Sometimes, it just cant be done. Most of my clients seem to like that I take my time, but maybe some clients dont like it and dont tell me. I guess it depends on the vibe. I will pay more attention. ;)

I warranty my work for 4 weeks, but after it happens once, I may charge them a trip fee, it depends. Ya know, they want it done that same day. Some will drop you so fast if you dont get out there within 24 hours.

Alan, my comments were a bit 'tongue-in-cheek', but there certainly are a number of owners whose expectations are as I listed. When I encounter those types it is generally best to simply move along. They won't recognize value in the quality you deliver and you simply cannot build an effective business around such clientele.

We've all been presented with horses that are short shod, fit overly tight with heels falling off the shoe and every nail hole filled. I can't really tell if it was done to keep shoes on or work performed by someone who simply doesn't know how better to shoe a horse. I guess it doesn't matter as I have no intention of replicating that work anyway and knowing why the horse was shod as it was does nothing to help me move forward. Pull the junk, trim the foot and do the best work you can do.

If the horse pulls a shoe, make your best judgment call as to how you want to handle it (priority, fees, etc) and move on. If the owner's first priority is how long the shoes stay on, it was never a customer worth having anyway. You'll never keep one like that satisfied, no matter what you do.

As to your barefoot client that wants to skip an appointment, I have a standard answer to that.

Inside voice: It's not my job to help you profit through the willful neglect of your horse.

Outside voice: Yes maam, I understand and appreciate your concerns. I'll move your account to my inactive client list. I appreciate your business and If I can be of service in the future, please feel free to call me.

When and if they call back (they usually don't), I may or may not choose to service the account. Much depends on my availability and the customers willingness to accept the 'account re-activation' fee. Neglected feet always incur additional cost beyond basic fees.

Cheers,
Mark
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