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TOPIC: International Hoof-care Summit?????

RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 09 Feb 2010 15:20 #16

  • Rick Burten
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Western Hill Forge wrote:
Mr Burten,
Its 'Rick', Rick :)
[Good point. I would share your concern about what some people would take home from Chris' instruction of having some color in the shoe when burning on.

But I have always heard Chris strongly emphasize a MAXIMUM 4 SECOND burn time.
Me too. However, it has been my experience that many people 'hear' but don't 'listen'. ;)
He always told us don't guess, count, so as to sear, not bake the foot.
One of my concerns is that people will do this repetitively and the cumulative effect is not at all what Chris et al. intends.
The message I got was: hotter shoe, less burn time. This is the part I would be afraid some people might miss.
I agree. :)

Rick
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 09 Feb 2010 22:44 #17

  • Mark_Gough
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Rick Talbert wrote:
Rick Burten;192218 wrote:

Wow, I didn't think I was that important. I sure didn't think you'd be interested in talkin with little ole me Rick, I figured you were hangin out with them top farriers. Did you happen to see Chris Gregory's lecture on hot shoeing BTW:D;)

Rick, I was in that hot shoeing lecture. What did you think of Chris' description of hot fitting/creating a rocker toe? I need to wait for the dvd release and watch it again to make sure I understood him right.

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 09 Feb 2010 22:50 #18

  • Ray_Knightley
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There is a well Known German saying ::

Is the sole Burned right through ,then:
Then the Hoof and Fetlock are true ..(in Line):p
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 09 Feb 2010 23:56 #19

reillyshoe wrote:
I conducted some trials to measure the heat transfer of various shoeing products/techniques through temperature probes inserted into the junction of the sole and corium. A 470 degree centigrade shoe burned for 5 seconds resulted in a 12-14 degree centigrade increase at the level of sensitive tissue. One might guess that change would be reduced with the advantage of circulation dissipating this heat in a live horse.

Now thats cool Pat, great job.
Matthew Kornegay.

"The beast in me is caged by frail and fragile bars." -
-- Johnny Cash
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 00:58 #20

  • Alicia Thompson
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Western Hill Forge wrote:
But I have always heard Chris strongly emphasize a MAXIMUM 4 SECOND burn time. He always told us don't guess, count, so as to sear, not bake the foot.
Regards,

At the summit he said a count of four and explained that his count of four was about 2 seconds.

I really liked his presentation style. Missed the rocker toe part as my ride back to Canada was leaving due to the impending storm.
Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box.
- Alicia Thompson


http://thompsonfarrierservice.com
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 00:59 #21

  • Alicia Thompson
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Mark_Gough wrote:
Rick Talbert;192235 wrote:

Rick, I was in that hot shoeing lecture. What did you think of Chris' description of hot fitting/creating a rocker toe? I need to wait for the dvd release and watch it again to make sure I understood him right.

Cheers,
Mark

My ride was leaving so I missed this part. Is he really going to put this out on DVD? I would love to watch it.
Forget thinking outside the box, instead realize there is no box.
- Alicia Thompson


http://thompsonfarrierservice.com
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 01:21 #22

Mark_Gough wrote:
Rick Talbert;192235 wrote:

Rick, I was in that hot shoeing lecture. What did you think of Chris' description of hot fitting/creating a rocker toe? I need to wait for the dvd release and watch it again to make sure I understood him right.

Cheers,
Mark

Please tell me more about this lecture.
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 01:27 #23

  • Jack Evers
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13 degrees C is ~55 F

Not quite right Denise or not quite applicable. Yes, 13 degrees C is 55 degrees F on a temperature scale , but a 13 degree C temperature RISE is only a 23 degree F RISE in temperature. The zero points of the Celsius and F scales are different, but in this case the zero point is hoof temp and one degree C is 1.8 degrees F.
Jack Evers CJF AFA#426

The best things about the good old days -- I wasn't good and I wasn't old.

The older I get, the more horses I shoe, the fewer things that I can absolutely, positively fix.
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 01:59 #24

  • Mark_Gough
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Jack Evers wrote:
Not quite right Denise or not quite applicable. Yes, 13 degrees C is 55 degrees F on a temperature scale , but a 13 degree C temperature RISE is only a 23 degree F RISE in temperature. The zero points of the Celsius and F scales are different, but in this case the zero point is hoof temp and one degree C is 1.8 degrees F.

Excellent and important Jack.

To put it in practical terms, this means that a hoof that is at normal body temperature of 100 degrees Fahrenheit may rise to about 124 degrees after five seconds of hot shoeing at the temp that Patrick described.

Five seconds is too long so the increase is probably less.

Bottom line... farriers have been hot shoeing for years and I've yet to hear of a horse dying from the process when done correctly.

I'm still trying to decide if I understood Chris correctly in the hot shoeing lecture regards rockering a toe. If I did understand correctly, Chris was basically saying the he used the heated shoe to create the rocker in the foot rather than using a rasp. He said he hated seeing the 'gaps' that just rasping the rocker can sometimes leave.

Now I'm wondering if he meant that he does rasp the rocker in first, then hot shoes to get a cleaner fit, or if he actually meant to create the rockered toe by burning it in. I'd have to watch someone do it if it's the later.

I'll send Chris a note and try to get clarification on this topic.

Cheers,
Mark
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 10:53 #25

  • Mike Ferrara
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DeniseMc wrote:
When a hamburger is cooked to 160 °F, it is both safe and delicious!

Yes, every bit as good as any garden variety used tire. LOL, Give it to us raw and wiggling. Nothing is safe but I'm still alive.
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 11:55 #26

  • beslagsmed
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I had a good time at the Summit. Not so much the big things, but some good stuff to think about. I suprised myself on Thursday, staying wide awake when biomechanics was presented by the guy from Canada. I found it very interesting. Later on that evening in the round tables, I attended his again and there was a really good discussion. This is a subject I will continue to search out and learn more about.

Was good to meet some of the poster of this site and say hi. I am still having a good time as I will be headed back to Denmark on Saturday afternoon (if the snow lets me!!).

Spent the day with Mike Baily yesterday. Was great to pound some iron with him and talk about the profession with him.
Mikel Dawson, RJF

(Denmark)
What part of "NO" don't you understand!!

Caution: Watch for hoof in mouth disease!!!
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 12:28 #27

Mike Ferrara wrote:
Heat transfer is a function of the temp difference, the material properties and time. A really hot shoe for a short time, may not get as much heat as far into the foot as a cooler shoe for a longer period of time.

So Denise, hotter shoe, shorter time = brown on the outside, uncooked on the inside. Feel better?? :D

Regards
Rick Shepherd

Although we know what we believe, we may only believe what we know. Dr William Moyers
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 10 Feb 2010 13:06 #28

  • BPethick
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Mark_Gough wrote:
Excellent and important Jack.


Bottom line... farriers have been hot shoeing for years and I've yet to hear of a horse dying from the process when done correctly.

When done correctly I have only seen and heard of Great results!
Bob Pethick CJF AFA #1340
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Only those who have the patience to do things perfectly will acquire the skill to do difficult things easily...
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 12 Feb 2010 03:34 #29

Man, this is cool. I did not imagine that any of my lectures would get any debate, so I am glad to see that at least some of you had some coffee on the way in. Thank all of you so much for your comments, and it is an honor that you would have listened to the talk.

Here is some clarification, and I am sorry that I am a better speaker so that you would not need this clarification. I like to hot fit with a very hot shoe for a count of 4. That is probably just under 2 seconds, so it is a pretty fast count. For the rocker toe part, I rasp the bevel into the foot during the trim, then just touch the foot with the hot shoe to show me where I need to remove hoof to make a perfect fit. Much like I would use a hot shoe to mark where I needed to cut for a clip fit. Once I had removed the hoof wall, I would hot fit as normal. It is like fitting a big clip with my rasp instead of my knife.

Any other questions, I would be happy to respond to. I have been shoeing hot since August of 1990, and have yet to have a horse damaged from the process that I know of. Add to that the fact that I have been teaching beginners how to hot shoe since January of 1991, and there also, have not had a problem. This indicates to me that hot fitting is not dangerous or damaging when done correctly. Hope that helps, and thanks again.

"Build a man a fire, you keep him warm for a day. Light a man on fire, you keep him warm for the rest of his life."
Chris Gregory, CJF, FWCF
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417-682-6896
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RE:International Hoof-care Summit????? 12 Feb 2010 06:41 #30

  • Ray_Knightley
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I make the joke when counting starting with 34...36.....:D...a very old farrier (who walked home after the war from Russia) used that one on drafts ..but he would burn Up to a minute without even thinking about it

The bevel can be a problem sometimes on horses that paw here because we have hard surface ..I like to do that just before the burn on some and then have a holder stand in front of that leg....

only writing this because i am sad not to have been at the Summit:(
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