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TOPIC: I need to vent...forgive me

RE:I need to vent...forgive me 24 Nov 2005 21:36 #16

  • Bill Adams
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Sarah,
What Gary says is true. I remember giving advice like this to a fellow just out of the service who was starting out in this trade. It served him well as he is progressing in it for the last couple of years.

Always remember to charge them 'till you like them, as in, "Oh, that big mouth drunk wants me to trim those horses. Yes! Now I can go buy that ________ (fill in blank)."
My $0.02,
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 24 Nov 2005 23:07 #17

Dump them, get the hell out of there, pack up and go, and don't turn back. There is no reason to put up with that. I will not tolerate a drunk being in control of 1200lbs of animal that I'm going to get under and work on. I will not tolerate an obnoxious ass telling me what to do, especially while he's intoxicated. This is dangerous, for your health and your reputation. If he talks down to you to your face, think of how he'll talk about you when you're not around. Rick said it best, when word get's out that you keep these types of clients, that's all you'll have, his horses, and all his redneck buddies. Forget them. It's not worth it. Plenty more clients will call, and when they do, you don't want to put them off cause you have to go out to this jerks house sunday morning at six to make sure he isn't drunk.

Dave
"Everybody is ignorant, only on different subjects." Will Rogers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBimQu6Pxxs
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 26 Nov 2005 15:33 #18

  • Skinfaxi
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The horses were tied not held. I changed my prices, to cover these horses that get trimmed 4 times a year and are a pain to do because of it. The price change should prevent undesireables in my area from calling too often. The average rate is 25-30. I checked. I was charging 25, I thought it was fair for my lack of exp. points, and speed. I wasn't realizing that the whole reason those afore mentioned horses took an hour apiece was that they were so overgrown. So I changed my rate to this 35 for everyone's first trim with me. If I have to drive over an hour there is a 5 buck trip fee. If people adopt a 4-6 week schedual and FOLLOW IT, I lower my fee for them to 25. If they think that 10+ weeks is an adaquate schedual then they can pay 35 for it. I am adapting my way of thinking fairly quickly, and the more people I deal with the better I will get at it. I haven't done very many jobs so far, and I have had the reputation as a trusting person that always belives someone until I have been given a reason not to. That way of thinking has proven to be expensive. I think my new pricing is the best and most fair that I have thought of yet. It makes a whole lot more sense then some of my ideas about what to charge.
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 26 Nov 2005 16:01 #19

I changed my prices, to cover these horses that get trimmed 4 times a year and are a pain to do because of it..

Do not be the underdog. Charge what everyone else in the area charges. Don't sell yourself short.
The price change should prevent undesireables in my area from calling too often.

It will and good riddence!
I wasn't realizing that the whole reason those afore mentioned horses took an hour apiece was that they were so overgrown. So I changed my rate to this 35 for everyone's first trim with me.

In my opinon this isn't enough. I charge $30.00 for a normal maintnence trim. Anything other then normal is $45.00 and up.
If I have to drive over an hour there is a 5 buck trip fee.

No! This isn't enough. Figure your truck gets 20 miles to the gallon. You travel back roads and average 45 mph. Thats 2 1/4 gallons of gasoline @ $2.25 per gallon = $5.06 in fuel. Now that doesn't include tire wear, engine wear and time that you could have spent working closer to home making money. I work about a 30 mile radius from home, once I travel out of that area I charge a minimum fuel surcharge of $20.00. Then it goes up from there. I have very few people to buck on it. If I drive an hour from home and do 2 trims, that equates to $30.00 X 2 + $20.00 = $80.00.[/QUOTE]
If people adopt a 4-6 week schedual and FOLLOW IT, I lower my fee for them to 25. If they think that 10+ weeks is an adaquate schedual then they can pay 35 for it.

Yes, I just think you should go up a little bit.
I am adapting my way of thinking fairly quickly, and the more people I deal with the better I will get at it. I haven't done very many jobs so far, and I have had the reputation as a trusting person that always believes someone until I have been given a reason not to. That way of thinking has proven to be expensive.

It is good to be nice to people but you have to think of your bottom line as well. Wear and tear on your equipment and you.
I think my new pricing is the best and most fair way that I have thought of yet. It makes a whole lot more sense then some of my ideas about what to charge.

If you spend time then charge for it. If you take your truck in to get fixed and the estimate it will take 2 hours to fix but in reality it takes 3 hours to fix-do you think they are going to give you the extra hour free? No, and you shouldn't give your time away either.

As far as this particular job goes: I totally concur w/ Dave! I will not tolerate pain in the ass horses nor owners - ESPECIALLY DRUNK ONES!!!!


Good Luck.
Chris Clark

"No hour of life is wasted that is spent in the saddle."
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 26 Nov 2005 17:23 #20

  • Skinfaxi
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I wanted to ask, does/has anyone worked in my area of Illinois? I have talked to a few farriers on the phone and they seemed worried about me being competition. We have very few barns, nearly everyone seems to be a mid-low income backyarder. It may not be that bad, but that is how it seems right now. I'm not above moving after I attend school. I'm not being extreme, and I'v been told not to worry. I'm not worried really, I just feel like this is a valid concern around here, and I'm terribly impatient(that's the other thing I'm known for).
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 26 Nov 2005 18:36 #21

  • Gary_Miller
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Skinfaxi wrote:
I have talked to a few farriers on the phone and they seemed worried about me being competition. We have very few barns, nearly everyone seems to be a mid-low income backyarder.
If the other farriers are good at what they do then they have no need to worry about you as competition. If they are hacks and you do a better job then they need to worry because soon the word will get around that you do a better job and they will lose customer. If this is the case so be it. Such is the American way of free enterprize. Those who provide the best service get the most jobs. One thing I was told was "There are lots of good customers, but there are no loyal customers." Sonner or latter they will quite you for someone preceived to provide better service.Skinfaxi wrote:
So I changed my rate to this 35 for everyone's first trim with me. If I have to drive over an hour there is a 5 buck trip fee. If people adopt a 4-6 week schedual and FOLLOW IT, I lower my fee for them to 25.
Why lower your price just because they reschedule? Set your price and keep it there no matter if its the first trim or the last trim. You should only raise your prices never lower them.

Gary
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 26 Nov 2005 20:09 #22

  • NHFarrier
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I agree. Make base prices and stick to them. I used to give little discounts here and there, but then I realized that people like my work and are willing to pay, and I am much better than a lot of the competition. I don't have to give any discounts and I don't feel bad about charging for my work. The people who care about their horses are willing to pay to have them worked on - if you don't charge enough, they will think it reflects your work. Then, if you do get those people, it will be harder for you to raise prices because you will feel that they are going to move on if you charge too much! I had that same problem this year when I went from $90 for 4 winters, to $125. I was worried, but I had to cover the costs of my equipment and still make money! I've only had one "complaint" and it was, "Were they gold shoes or diamond studs this year?"
Unless you're the lead dog, the view never changes.
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 26 Nov 2005 22:44 #23

  • J.H. shoeing
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NHFarrier

I was working in a barn last week and a lady ask me what I charged to shoe and when I told her she said "no really what do you charge" so I went up $10 more dollars. After the $10 I.R.I. (instant rate increase) I was $45 more than what she is currently paying, didn't bother to tell her that I would have to put her on a waiting list.

Also had someone call, that was reffered, and when I advised the current rates they ask what do you do that is so special? I answered their question with why do the custom homes(they are custom home builders and good ones) y'all build cost so much? She answered with "you get what you pay for". She started laughing and ask when I could get to them. I told her I would do my best to work them in since they were reffered. Gotta love those gold shoes and diamond studs.

Jeff
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Some people are like Slinky’s, pretty much useless but make you smile when you push them down the stairs.
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 27 Nov 2005 05:26 #24

  • Bill Adams
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I give discounts (less than 10%) to barn managers who make my life better. The last one ask me before I started if I had a policy of discounting large accounts and i explained that I give discounts AFTER they are EARNED. That works well for me.
As to beeing a higher price than others I relate it to my coustomers like this.
I did a horse for a lady who was refered for $90, the top of the going rate localy. She gasped and said she had paid so and so only $60 to shoe her horse. I gasped and said I was suprised to hear he charged $60. I pointed out that she was getting a shoeing from me that was worth at least $110, and that the other guy was only worth $40, so her net value savings was $40 with me. I call it Farrier's Math Made Easy.
faxi,(do you have a real name?)
It sounds like you're catching on, C.T.T.Y.L.T. Charge them till you like them.
My $0.02,
Bill

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 28 Nov 2005 23:01 #25

  • Skinfaxi
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Yes I have a real name, I've even used it once or twice. :) I'll get my signature up. I was looking at it like this. The going rate for a trim in my area is about $25, like it or not. My base fee is $25, then I charge extra for first/sporadic trims. If someone were to ask me why I did that I would say that it covers the time and headache it takes to do a badly overgrown foot/deal with people who think sporadic care is good care AND it could make some people think they are getting a deal at my regular base fee. Plus it makes me feel better.



Sarah
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 29 Nov 2005 06:51 #26

  • John Barney
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Sarah,
My questions is about your relocating after school. What school? Are you trimming horses without any training? Just wondering.

JB
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 29 Nov 2005 22:11 #27

  • Skinfaxi
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I plan to attend Shurshod Farrier School asap(which could be a while.) I have been trimming several horses including my own 2, for over a year now and have sucessfully made sound my own laminitic horse. I have been studying the hoof funtion and form extensively and feel l that I have a good understanding of the hoof, although I don't yet feel qualified to tackle any pathalogical hooves that don't belong to me(the pony cured me of that). I am just starting out trying to trim professionally though. I am having a harder time trying to understand customers than horses, I am afraid.
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 29 Nov 2005 22:38 #28

  • solidrockshoer
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Sarah just a note. Ponies usually come back from laminitis alot quicker that large breeds. Just thought I'd add that. Good Luck! Gary
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RE:I need to vent...forgive me 30 Nov 2005 23:09 #29

  • Skinfaxi
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Thanks Gary,
I was going to give the pony a try, I explained Everything to the owner, and they just were not invested enough in the recovery. It opened my eyes to some things as well, so for now I'll steer clear until I get to spend some time with someone and learn a bit more about application of treatment. Knowing and doing are two different things. I need to See some things done first.
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