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TOPIC: Question for Norval

RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 19:24 #46

  • halfmiler
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phil,i disagree with your response to undercutting. a guy from florida that comes up here to shoe every summer drove the price down to $85.00 a head. in turn a bunch of us that couldnt afford to lose a barn with 15-20 head on the books had to drop our prices. racetrack life is different from the pleasure horse life.
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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 20:36 #47

halfmiler wrote:
phil,i disagree with your response to undercutting. a guy from florida that comes up here to shoe every summer drove the price down to $85.00 a head. in turn a bunch of us that couldnt afford to lose a barn with 15-20 head on the books had to drop our prices. racetrack life is different from the pleasure horse life.

One guy affected a bunch of ya all? Now that is funny. :D

Like I said, no such thing as under cutting you guys dropped your prices to survive, but it is not because of this one farrier. He is doing what he has to do to survive. Not sure if dropping your price was such a good move, only time will tell.

It's not any different outside of the track, the bar is set very high up my way, a lot of farriers to compete with along with the current economical issues.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 21:27 #48

  • Gary Hill
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Kim, I am proud to say that the time you spent with Jaye and the rest of them has paid off already! Your post above is the best thing I have seen you produce . Now work on Phil.:D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 22:00 #49

  • Travis Reed
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mr hill im afraid thier is no hope for phil he seems to stand for nothing and fall for everything...It reminds me of a politician but I will say like phil I don’t care who undercuts what because that will always be around.. It’s the snob in Norval and dishonesty I find dishearten

Phil don’t kid yourself into thinking Norval is a Nobel man. I don’t want to get started because I think he has heard it all and no need to beat a dead horse, but you say you have read the tread but go back a tad ****her where he say all it takes is a weak back and a weak mind...see he has changed a few things after he found out how insulting he was and he has repeated over many time of how he does not respect farriers. Norval is just a plain ol snob that thinks he is better than the masses not just farriers and how dare we question that. He is has to brag about what he can do and build... did ya not see the part about he built a brick wall...well wopty doo ...im not sure if he is trying to convince us of his greatness or himself.... and am I the only one that remembers the lies he got caught in about the endurance horses and him riding them and the real riders and owners seen this..then Baron ask Norvall about this and he had nothing to say?? And the tread was locked..
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 22:59 #50

Travis Reed wrote:
mr hill im afraid thier is no hope for phil he seems to stand for nothing and fall for everything...It reminds me of a politician

I stand for honesty, trust and keeping my word. I have no desire to join the feeding frenzy at the first sign of blood. I am far from ever being a good politician, never have been and never will be. I call it like I see it and have no problem speaking my mind face to face even if it means I stand alone on the subject. Actually I'm working hard at being nice and having a good attitude. Two of my weaknesses. :)

Norval is not the first person to say all it takes is a strong back and weak mind. I have heard many full time veteran farriers make the same remark. He is also not the first to tell a story that seems improbable. I have also heard many veteran farriers do the same. I do not take offense to it or would accuse them of being a liar. Accusing someone of being dishonest is a very strong accusation.

Just this weekend a highly respected farrier at a farrier clinic said "it is not rocket science" I told him, no it is not "it is much more difficult" I guess he did not realize this and I won't hold that against him. :)

Maybe I can attend next years shindig and we can get to know each other better.

Best regards
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 23:06 #51

  • irishcas
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Gary Hill wrote:
Kim, I am proud to say that the time you spent with Jaye and the rest of them has paid off already! Your post above is the best thing I have seen you produce . Now work on Phil.:D

Thanks Gary. Jaye has been trying to work on me for a long time, but all it took was a little coaching from Mr. Stovall. He helped me a lot in the "debate" department.

Doesn't mean I'll be able to keep it up, but I'll try.

As for Phil, he likes to argue the other side for the sake of arguing.

As for Norval, well, I'll just shut up on that ;)
Kim Cassidy
"I still say a church steeple with a lightning rod on top shows a lack of confidence." Doug McLeod
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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 23:12 #52

  • Rick Burten
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Phil Armitage wrote:
Like I said, no such thing as under cutting
That's a crock of mushroom fertilizer.
you guys dropped your prices to survive, but it is not because of this one farrier. He is doing what he has to do to survive.
Where I come from, you don't go into another man's house and c-r-a-p on his floor. Were I a union man, I'd opine that that man is a scab. Since I'm not a union man, and Baron doesn't allow certain terminology, I'll leave it to your imagination to determine my opinion of someone who does that.
Not sure if dropping your price was such a good move, only time will tell.
I agree. :)
It's not any different outside of the track, the bar is set very high up my way, a lot of farriers to compete with along with the current economical issues.
Makes no difference. If all are of the same skill, knowledge, ability, then the fees should all be comparable. I would not expect a 'whack and tack" shoer to command the same fees as someone such as yourself. And if you lose clients to the lower priced guy, so be it. If, when they come crawling back, you choose to put them back in your book, you should do so at a higher fee than what they were at when they left you.

Things are pretty competitive around here too but in all my years of providing farrier services to the public, I have never lowered my fees to meet those of another farrier.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 23:15 #53

irishcas wrote:
As for Phil, he likes to argue the other side for the sake of arguing.



LOL, don't we all. Would be an empty forum without it. On a serious note, you done good Kim and the farriers helping you have also done good.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 23:22 #54

Rick Burten wrote:
That's a crock of mushroom fertilizer.

Where I come from, you don't go into another man's house and c-r-a-p on his floor. Were I a union man, I'd opine that that man is a scab. Since I'm not a union man, and Baron doesn't allow certain terminology, I'll leave it to your imagination to determine my opinion of someone who does that.

I agree. :)

Makes no difference. If all are of the same skill, knowledge, ability, then the fees should all be comparable. I would not expect a 'whack and tack" shoer to command the same fees as someone such as yourself. And if you lose clients to the lower priced guy, so be it. If, when they come crawling back, you choose to put them back in your book, you should do so at a higher fee than what they were at when they left you.

Things are pretty competitive around here too but in all my years of providing farrier services to the public, I have never lowered my fees to meet those of another farrier.

I totally agree with you Rick, except for the crock part. :)

The rest is why I believe under cutting is an excuse and does not exist. I can give a hoot what others charge. Ultimately it is up to the horse owner, barns, trainers and Vets who they decide to use. Maybe more attention should be brought to the real problem. The ones who would drop you for a farrier who charges less. I can see someone dropping me for someone who is better and charges more, that would show me they care. :)
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Question for Norval 22 Sep 2009 23:46 #55

  • Travis Reed
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I have no desire to join the feeding frenzy at the first sign of blood....
I did not realize their was a feeding frenzy ..I took it for what it was one man telling everyone they are price gouging and making it clear he has no respect for us or the trade..that’s the way I took it!!

I call it like I see it ....your View is skewed... and your kiding yourself

Actually I'm working hard at being nice and having a good attitude.....Funny you say that because thats something I have just never had (work at) it comes pretty natural when its really warranted..

Two of my weaknesses.. i think i would have kept that to myself if that was two of mine ...as before see above..

I have heard many full time veteran farriers make the same remark.....The difference is you said they where farriers kinda like if say another person from the south calls me a hick we laugh its funny.... but say if you tried it being from up north it might go over like a lead balloon...

He is also not the first to tell a story that seems improbable. I have also heard many veteran farriers do the same I do not take offense to it or would accuse them of being a liar. Accusing someone of being dishonest is a very strong accusation........Where I come from a liar is a liar plain and simple. If someone will look at you and tell a lie they will also do other dishonest things they are people who should not be trusted... plain And simple

Just this weekend a highly respected farrier at a farrier clinic said "it is not rocket science" .........Maybe he felt the question asked was elementary... and it might not be that hard for him to follow things..

Maybe I can attend next years shindig ....Oh man that would be awesome

and we can get to know each other better. .....Well if you see things the way your buddy Norval does I would not hold your breath because I seriously doubt we will be doing long walks chatting in the sunset
Travis Reed.....


www.sporthorsefarrier.com to direct link..
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RE:Question for Norval 23 Sep 2009 00:04 #56

  • IRNWKR_2
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Gary Hill wrote:
Kim, I am proud to say that the time you spent with Jaye and the rest of them has paid off already! Your post above is the best thing I have seen you produce . Now work on Phil.:D

I have to say Gary that After a weekend with "Real Men" she will be changed forever. She was so willing to learn, not even a hint of a "know it All" and I was impressed at all the **** she took. I cant believe I am saying this but Kimmie can ride with me anytime.:)
Jason Gilliland
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RE:Question for Norval 23 Sep 2009 00:05 #57

I think prices should reflect the number of posts a person has on this forum. those with more posts are more highly respected and should command a higher fee. I will be posting more as I wish to do a price increase in the spring.
Hernando Alonzo
Certified Professional Farrier

"When all has been said and done...... usually much more has been said than done. "
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RE:Question for Norval 23 Sep 2009 00:13 #58

  • Gary Hill
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Armando, I like you already with your 17 posts!:D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Question for Norval 23 Sep 2009 00:18 #59

Travis Reed wrote:
I have no desire to join the feeding frenzy at the first sign of blood....
I did not realize their was a feeding frenzy ..I took it for what it was one man telling everyone they are price gouging and making it clear he has no respect for us or the trade..that’s the way I took it!!

I call it like I see it ....your View is skewed... and your kiding yourself

Actually I'm working hard at being nice and having a good attitude.....Funny you say that because thats something I have just never had (work at) it comes pretty natural when its really warranted..

Two of my weaknesses.. i think i would have kept that to myself if that was two of mine ...as before see above..

I have heard many full time veteran farriers make the same remark.....The difference is you said they where farriers kinda like if say another person from the south calls me a hick we laugh its funny.... but say if you tried it being from up north it might go over like a lead balloon...

He is also not the first to tell a story that seems improbable. I have also heard many veteran farriers do the same I do not take offense to it or would accuse them of being a liar. Accusing someone of being dishonest is a very strong accusation........Where I come from a liar is a liar plain and simple. If someone will look at you and tell a lie they will also do other dishonest things they are people who should not be trusted... plain And simple

Just this weekend a highly respected farrier at a farrier clinic said "it is not rocket science" .........Maybe he felt the question asked was elementary... and it might not be that hard for him to follow things..

Maybe I can attend next years shindig ....Oh man that would be awesome

and we can get to know each other better. .....Well if you see things the way your buddy Norval does I would not hold your breath because I seriously doubt we will be doing long walks chatting in the sunset

Travis, very well thought out and very well said. I'm impressed. You will find that I do not see things as my buddy Norval does. I hope this won't lead to your desire for a long walk chatting in the sunset, because that is not my thing. :D

Look forward to meeting you one day.

Take care
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Question for Norval 23 Sep 2009 00:20 #60

everypersonisahorsetoo wrote:
I think prices should reflect the number of posts a person has on this forum. those with more posts are more highly respected and should command a higher fee. I will be posting more as I wish to do a price increase in the spring.

LOL, that would mean I would be a rich man.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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