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TOPIC: Horse handlers...........

Horse handlers........... 18 Aug 2009 13:42 #1

  • Ron Oldenbeuving
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My GF has proved quite adept at keeping horses calm, and me safe in the bargain. The question I have is, how many of you take a horse handler with you? Do you charge for this, and if so, how much and in what circumstances? There have been a few occassions where she has had to step in and take over the handling of horses where the owners didn't really have a clue, and I dont think it fair I ask her to take risks like that without some form of recompense. She tells me she does it to keep me safe, but that places her at risk also. All suggestions welcome.
Ron Oldenbeuving
Accredited Farrier
South Australia

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RE:Horse handlers........... 18 Aug 2009 18:54 #2

  • dave murray
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Over here on the racetrack most shoers have their own holder.you can pay them by the horse or by the week.you build the cost into your regular shoeing price many things come into play here, if you use the same holder all the time and have them on a salary you should probally have compensation insurance for them as well and take out income tax to. this really drives the cost of haveing a holder up.if you just use a holder (handler) ocasionally you would just charge the client whatever you pay the holder over and above your regular price.one thing to be careful of is if someone in your employ is holding the horse and something happens(horse flips over) and the horse is hurt. you may be found liable in court. i've seen it happen. but if the owner or someone in there employ is holding the horse and it gets hurt the liability is theres.hope this helps.
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RE:Horse handlers........... 18 Aug 2009 21:58 #3

  • George Geist
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dave murray wrote:
Over here on the racetrack most shoers have their own holder.you can pay them by the horse or by the week.you build the cost into your regular shoeing price many things come into play here, if you use the same holder all the time and have them on a salary you should probally have compensation insurance for them as well and take out income tax to. this really drives the cost of haveing a holder up.if you just use a holder (handler) ocasionally you would just charge the client whatever you pay the holder over and above your regular price.one thing to be careful of is if someone in your employ is holding the horse and something happens(horse flips over) and the horse is hurt. you may be found liable in court. i've seen it happen. but if the owner or someone in there employ is holding the horse and it gets hurt the liability is theres.hope this helps.
You'll not see stuff like this at a Union track.
George
For another fun place to play........
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RE:Horse handlers........... 18 Aug 2009 22:27 #4

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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George Geist in gray

You'll not see stuff like this at a Union track.


Here in the States, you don't see it at the non-union tracks either. At most tracks, if they need holding, a groom holds his/her horses for the plater. Occasionally, an assistant trainer will hold, and about every second blue moon, a trainer will deign to hold - but mostly any holding is done by whoever is rubbing the horse.

Occasionally, if the weather's cool and the horse is broke, it's a helluva lot faster to just tie the horse to the stall ring and get after it.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Horse handlers........... 18 Aug 2009 23:42 #5

  • Rightstep
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I have a handler with me at the big barns and I charge $5/per horse which pays for the handler. Most owners are happy to pay the $5 as they know the handler and they do not need to take time off from work to hold their horse for 20 min.
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RE:Horse handlers........... 18 Aug 2009 23:56 #6

  • halfmiler
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every plater here on the grounds at charlestown has a holder. $10.00 a head. most of the shoeing here is done in the afternoons way after the trainers and grooms have left.
J.M.Shrader
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 00:15 #7

  • George Geist
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
Occasionally, if the weather's cool and the horse is broke, it's a helluva lot faster to just tie the horse to the stall ring and get after it.
We tend to frown upon that also:(
George
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 00:39 #8

  • dave murray
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
George Geist in gray

You'll not see stuff like this at a Union track.

Here in the States, you don't see it at the non-union tracks either. At most tracks, if they need holding, a groom holds his/her horses for the plater. Occasionally, an assistant trainer will hold, and about every second blue moon, a trainer will deign to hold - but mostly any holding is done by whoever is rubbing the horse.
Occasionally, if the weather's cool and the horse is broke, it's a helluva lot faster to just tie the horse to the stall ring and get after it.

It used to be a hotwalker or grooms job to hold for the blacksmith. but in the last 10 years or so all the guy's have there own holder. i'am the only shoer at my track that dosn't have a holder , once in a while i'll grab somebody to hold a coulpe for me but not very often.
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 01:33 #9

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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dave murray in gray

It used to be a hotwalker or grooms job to hold for the blacksmith. but in the last 10 years or so all the guy's have there own holder. i'am the only shoer at my track that dosn't have a holder , once in a while i'll grab somebody to hold a coulpe for me but not very often.

When I held a license (c1973-1998), a groom rubbed three or four horses, was in for one percent of their winnings, and took inordinate pride in his/her horses. Good grooms knew their horses like a momma knows her babies and most of them wouldn't let anybody else hold their horses for a plater, they wanted to do it themselves.

Times have changed, and I'm not sure for the better.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 01:38 #10

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George Geist in gray

We tend to frown upon that also:(

I dunno why the JHU would frown on hanging one off the stall ring because it can be the slickest way to get around some of 'em - and you damn sure know it. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 01:45 #11

  • halfmiler
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
dave murray in gray

It used to be a hotwalker or grooms job to hold for the blacksmith. but in the last 10 years or so all the guy's have there own holder. i'am the only shoer at my track that dosn't have a holder , once in a while i'll grab somebody to hold a coulpe for me but not very often.

When I held a license (c1973-1998), a groom rubbed three or four horses, was in for one percent of their winnings, and took inordinate pride in his/her horses. Good grooms knew their horses like a momma knows her babies and most of them wouldn't let anybody else hold their horses for a plater, they wanted to do it themselves.

Times have changed, and I'm not sure for the better.


thats funny,my dads been rubbing horses for 35 years and he has never ever rubbed just 3-4 horses. till this day he still rubs 10 head. i dont know how the money is in texas but here in the tristate a man cant feed his family rubbing 4 head.

in the 70's and 80's he held for my godfather who was the best to ever shoe at charlestown. back then a holder was getting $3.00 a head.
J.M.Shrader
“Some people have told me they don't think a fat penguin really embodies the grace of Linux, which just tells me they have never seen a angry penguin charging at them in excess of 100 mph.” Linus Torvalds
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 02:01 #12

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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halfmiler in gray

thats funny,my dads been rubbing horses for 35 years and he has never ever rubbed just 3-4 horses. till this day he still rubs 10 head. i dont know how the money is in texas but here in the tristate a man cant feed his family rubbing 4 head.

Grooms make a little more when they leave the bullrings.

in the 70's and 80's he held for my godfather who was the best to ever shoe at charlestown. back then a holder was getting $3.00 a head.

No disrespect intended, but last I heard, you could still run an 11 year old maiden at Charlestown. :)
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 02:08 #13

  • Ron Oldenbeuving
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Howdy all, it's Ron's GF here (he left himself logged in on my computer.... OOPS!)
Just thought I'd clarify a couple of points....

Here in Australia, at least from what I've seen/heard it's not common for a farrier to have a handler. Hence, some owners might find it an 'interesting' concept, and I don't know how much money they'd be willing to hand over for it?

I go around with Ron because I enjoy it (I can't actually work myself), and I don't mind holding the quiet ones that stand there and doze at all.
However, when the leadrope of a not-so-quiet horse gets handed to me (either by the owner, or Ron himself who has decided the owner is an incapable arse), I have to be on the ball for the duration of the shoeing, quite literally I find myself staring at a bunch of muscles ready to take action if I see them so much as twitch.

Without bragging, doing this comes to me naturally, and I don't even mind it so much, but in the process I usually end up helping an owner with their horse's ground work and manners, and THIS is what we were thinking of charging for. (I've had more people than I can count tell me that they feel a heck of a lot safer with me holding their horse's for them).
And I'm not just talking cheeky little things either, I'm talking rearers, spinners, biters, kickers, unhandled nervous horses, those with no respect, the lot. All of which I can usually have quiet by the time Ron's job is done with the owner going... 'How did you do that?'

An idea we were tossing around was, saying front up to owners of 'problem' horses- yup, Rhi (me) will hold them and educate them for you, but for $XX an hour. However, I don't want to present it in such a way that they choose to just hold the horse themselves, resulting in a hoof in Ron's head or something....
Would this be a fair prospect? An 'addon' perhaps to the business Ron already does?


Just fishing for opinions, would love to hear what you guys think.
Ron Oldenbeuving
Accredited Farrier
South Australia

"What did they go back to before they had drawing boards?" :/
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 03:16 #14

  • Gary Hill
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Girlfriend, time is money and I am sure you are worth every penny you can get. Good on you for being there for Ron. My wife works with our babies out in the pasture, has them picking up their feet for her without a halter on them. You gals just do something to the savage beasts!:D Men included!
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Horse handlers........... 19 Aug 2009 04:55 #15

  • halfmiler
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Tom Stovall, CJF wrote:
halfmiler in gray

thats funny,my dads been rubbing horses for 35 years and he has never ever rubbed just 3-4 horses. till this day he still rubs 10 head. i dont know how the money is in texas but here in the tristate a man cant feed his family rubbing 4 head.

Grooms make a little more when they leave the bullrings.

in the 70's and 80's he held for my godfather who was the best to ever shoe at charlestown. back then a holder was getting $3.00 a head.

No disrespect intended, but last I heard, you could still run an 11 year old maiden at Charlestown. :)

$50 a head per week. plus get paid to run your own string. $200 stake if you win a race. not too bad if considering this litte "bullring" gives away a **** load of money in purses 5-6 days a week.

im not sure on the 11yrold maiden thing but they usualy run out of starts way before they get that old.
J.M.Shrader
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