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TOPIC: Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!!

RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 10 Jun 2009 21:35 #91

  • BS-Horseshoeing
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Mike Ferrara wrote:
I'm not arguing and I didn't say that anything was easy. You are the only one who referred to anyone as being "higher" or "lower". My only point was that I do indeed know what it's like to be tested...timed tests and tests specifically designed to test response in a stressful and even potentially dangerous situations...and in front of people.

Mike, in all these threads about the tests you act like your to good to take them and know all you need to know. Maybe that's not what you mean to come across as, but it almost comes across as arrogant. Sorry, that's just how it reads.
Pay money and travel to take it? I pay and travel more than enough as it is. I'm in this business to make money. It's not a hobby and or a game for me. One thing I can say about most of the other tests I've taken is that they were a required part of earning a credential that I needed to do something I wanted to do or to earn a living.


That's just how it works for those who want to get this test done, if you don't ok, but why then do you keep putting it down? It may not be for you, ok, but those who want to go through it and put the effort out get tired of hearing how it's a waste of time.


Pay my dues? Who the hell are you? I'm 50, I've been working since I was 15, raised two kids and I've been paying dues the whole time.

Mike, I'm just saying that if you want to talk about the test from an informed experienced point of view (as in one who has taken it) then pay one years dues and take the test and prove your right. I'm nobody, only been at this ten years, but I'm 41, college educated, raised two kids and a third one is in the process of growing up now. Been working my whole life. I've also paid my life dues, those are not what I'm talking about.
At this point in my life, you think I'd feel I have anything to prove to you? You must think a lot of yourself. Put yourself in a position where your opinion is somehow important and I'll do what I have to do when called upon to do so just like I always have.

I don't want you to prove anything to me, I don't care about you one way or another. Your just another shoer making a living and that's fine, I admire that. I'll never be in a position to make my opinion mean something to you and don't want to, but I just don't understand your disdain for the testing others like. You put it down constantly, if you can't tell, it rubs some the wrong way because they are proud of what they have done in that system. If I had the knowledge and could put down all the things you have done as being worthless, would you care or just blow it off thinking you knew better? I've been through some if the testing and know it's a good deal for those of us who don't have the other resources to learn. You had a very good start with the guy you learned from, I didn't. I had to work on my own for years, learning the hard way until the AFA and their testing came along and put me in touch with some really good people. It's a way to get better, not just a test. So we will disagree on this no matter how we look at it, but that's ok. I still think you know a bunch and help out here, your just a contentious type, it keeps things interesting.
Ben Sturman
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Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 10 Jun 2009 21:47 #92

  • Gary Hill
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As to time management, I am the worlds worst at keeping track of how much propane I have burned over the week, and just this afternoon here I am building the second pair of liteshod shoes today out of 3/8 X 3/4. I always build my turndowns first before I make my toe bends and just as the two shoes are getting cherry red, I hear the forge starting to go cold!:eek: Not a BarBQ grill in site and I am at a barn out in the country, so its fast and furious to break the toes and punch and clean up two shoes with the fire slowly dying! Got-er-done but man my arm hurts from cleaning up frog eyes and final shape and level on cold shoes.:(
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 10 Jun 2009 22:22 #93

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Gary_Miller wrote:
Read this thread you will get your answer.

Didn't read the whole thread but I get the jest. How many trys on the test? Did you make yourself a nice, framed, certificate?
Pardon my failure to previously show due respect to your accomplishments and know that in the future you will be spoken of as Mr. Miller, Pee Eff.
I can imagine, and probably deserve, any and all expletives you may want to return.
Mr. Adams, BMF

A rightous man regardeth the life of his beast. Proverbs 12:10
I don't give a damn for a man who can only spell a word one way. Mark Twain
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 10 Jun 2009 22:54 #94

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Bill Adams wrote:
How many trys on the test?
No test. Just bought some tools from the local farm store, made some buisness cards and went to work.cool:
Bill Adams wrote:
Did you make yourself a nice, framed, certificate?
Nope I ran out of room on my "I love me" wall long ago.:D
Bill Adams wrote:
Pardon my failure to previously show due respect to your accomplishments and know that in the future you will be spoken of as Mr. Miller, Pee Eff.
I can imagine, and probably deserve, any and all expletives you may want to return.
Mr. Adams, BMF
Its Ok Bill I forgive you.:)
Gary Miller, PF

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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 10 Jun 2009 23:03 #95

  • ray steele
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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
Mike, in all these threads about the tests you act like your to good to take them and know all you need to know. Maybe that's not what you mean to come across as, but it almost comes across as arrogant. Sorry, that's just how it reads.




That's just how it works for those who want to get this test done, if you don't ok, but why then do you keep putting it down? It may not be for you, ok, but those who want to go through it and put the effort out get tired of hearing how it's a waste of time.

Ben,

I don't want to be misconstrued as if I answering for Mike F or Gary, but i don't see them "putting down the AFA testing, I do hear ,loud and clear that it is not for them and in saying that I keep hearing /reading challenges to take the test






Mike, I'm just saying that if you want to talk about the test from an informed experienced point of view (as in one who has taken it) then pay one years dues and take the test and prove your right. I'm nobody, only been at this ten years, but I'm 41, college educated, raised two kids and a third one is in the process of growing up now. Been working my whole life. I've also paid my life dues, those are not what I'm talking about.

I think the test has been well enough explained and understood that they and many others do not feel the need to put up 1 years dues nor to take an AFA test to show competency.



I don't want you to prove anything to me, I don't care about you one way or another. Your just another shoer making a living and that's fine, I admire that. I'll never be in a position to make my opinion mean something to you and don't want to, but I just don't understand your disdain for the testing others like.



Others may like it and I think you will find that Mike and Gary have pretty clearly stated that they do not,nor do they challenge or hold in distain anyone who has tested, pass or fail.


You put it down constantly, if you can't tell, it rubs some the wrong way because they are proud of what they have done in that system.



They should be proud, if that is what they took the test for, and to me persons should not feel any less proud for not having taken a test.




If I had the knowledge and could put down all the things you have done as being worthless, would you care or just blow it off thinking you knew better? I've been through some if the testing and know it's a good deal for those of us who don't have the other resources to learn.



another tool in the box, like a GE half round nipper, if ya don't use one, probably a good tool to be without, if you can use one to make your work better/easier, it should be in your box, even though I'm sure I can find a few hundred farriers, horseshoers, ironhangers who will tell you they're the next best thing to sliced bread, and the same # that will say, useless/to expensive etc.,



You had a very good start with the guy you learned from, I didn't. I had to work on my own for years, learning the hard way until the AFA and their testing came along and put me in touch with some really good people. It's a way to get better, not just a test. So we will disagree on this no matter how we look at it, but that's ok. I still think you know a bunch and help out here, your just a contentious type, it keeps things interesting.



Contentious, or that he(Mike) has a strong belief in the thoughts that he espouses? Please notice that they (Mike and Gary)make their thoughts openly, it could also be called conversation, or sharing/expressing of thoughts and ideas. I think that you can see it as such. I think that's what these type of forums are for


regards

ray Steele
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 10 Jun 2009 23:07 #96

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Gary Hill wrote:
As to time management, I am the worlds worst at keeping track of how much propane I have burned over the week, and just this afternoon here I am building the second pair of liteshod shoes today out of 3/8 X 3/4. I always build my turndowns first before I make my toe bends and just as the two shoes are getting cherry red, I hear the forge starting to go cold!:eek: Not a BarBQ grill in site and I am at a barn out in the country, so its fast and furious to break the toes and punch and clean up two shoes with the fire slowly dying! Got-er-done but man my arm hurts from cleaning up frog eyes and final shape and level on cold shoes.:(
I can relate to that. This happen to me just the other day. I had to shape shoes to fit a mule. Ran out of propane before I got the first shoe shaped. Its a pain trying to put a arrowhead shape toe in a 000 light with out heating it up.:eek:
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

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"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 10 Jun 2009 23:15 #97

  • vthorseshoe
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Hey Gary....Shape a bunch od draft shoe's and that ooo becomes a piece of cake....:D
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 10 Jun 2009 23:16 #98

  • Gary Hill
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My elbow wishes it was a 000 I was banging on!:eek: I was working on 15 inches of steel shaping a #2 liteshod.:D
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 11 Jun 2009 01:42 #99

  • Tom Stovall CJF
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Gary_Miller in gray

I never said that proficiency and ability suffer if one learns to manage their time. It is quit the oppisate manageing of ones time will improve your proficiency. However, time management has nothing to do with completeing the task within a given time period.

Time management has EVERYTHING to do with completing a task within a given time period.

It has to do with constructively/productively using ones time wisely. Speed is not time management, however time management will produce speed.

All else being equal, speed is invariably a function of time management.

Speed does not proficiency make. Proficiency produces speed.

LMAO! Proficiency and efficiency are not synonymous! One can be proficient as all get out and take all day to shoe a horse. Without the efficient use of one's time (aka, time management) proficiency does not impact speed.
Tom Stovall, CJF
"The only foolish question is the one left unasked."
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 11 Jun 2009 02:28 #100

  • Mike Ferrara
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BS-Horseshoeing wrote:
Mike, in all these threads about the tests you act like your to good to take them and know all you need to know. Maybe that's not what you mean to come across as, but it almost comes across as arrogant. Sorry, that's just how it reads.

I don't care to belong to the AFA again and I don't think their test is the best thing I could do to improve my business but I never intended to claim that I'm too good for anything.


That's just how it works for those who want to get this test done, if you don't ok, but why then do you keep putting it down? It may not be for you, ok, but those who want to go through it and put the effort out get tired of hearing how it's a waste of time.

I think if you look through this thread, you'll see that I actually defended the idea of a timed test. I don't think I got you up in arms untill I said that I know what it's like to take a timed test.


Mike, I'm just saying that if you want to talk about the test from an informed experienced point of view (as in one who has taken it) then pay one years dues and take the test and prove your right.

From a test/measurement system analysis point of view, you're wrong. I can anylize a system and it's effectiveness without ever actually taking part in that system.

but I just don't understand your disdain for the testing others like. You put it down constantly, if you can't tell, it rubs some the wrong way because they are proud of what they have done in that system.

I have voiced disagreement with some aspects of the AFA and the test or it's significance...their use of the term "journeymen" for example. I've tried to be concise and honest. I don't think I should be held responsible for someone else's feelings of accomplishment or self worth.

If I had the knowledge and could put down all the things you have done as being worthless, would you care or just blow it off thinking you knew better?

Don't we have quite a bit of that in both directions when it comes to the certified/non-certified discussion? ie, what the non-certified farrier has done doesn't count?

Aside from the fact that I enjoy the conversation (and even the debate) I pretty much "blow it off".


It's a way to get better, not just a test. So we will disagree on this no matter how we look at it, but that's ok.

I don't think we disagree here. The fact that the process has been of value to you (and others) seems undeniable.
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 11 Jun 2009 02:38 #101

  • Mike Ferrara
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Gary Hill wrote:
As to time management, I am the worlds worst at keeping track of how much propane I have burned over the week, and just this afternoon here I am building the second pair of liteshod shoes today out of 3/8 X 3/4. I always build my turndowns first before I make my toe bends and just as the two shoes are getting cherry red, I hear the forge starting to go cold!:eek: Not a BarBQ grill in site and I am at a barn out in the country, so its fast and furious to break the toes and punch and clean up two shoes with the fire slowly dying! Got-er-done but man my arm hurts from cleaning up frog eyes and final shape and level on cold shoes.:(

I carry two bottles so I never get stuck without propane on the job.
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 11 Jun 2009 02:46 #102

  • Gary Hill
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Thought about that along time ago, but no extra room, just one 30lb bottle.:(
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 11 Jun 2009 19:30 #103

Gary Hill wrote:
Thought about that along time ago, but no extra room, just one 30lb bottle.:(

then just get 2 - 15lb bottles of propane;

and then you have room for 2 bottles:rolleyes::confused:
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 11 Jun 2009 20:30 #104

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ladyblacksmith wrote:
then just get 2 - 15lb bottles of propane;

and then you have room for 2 bottles:rolleyes::confused:

Nope, that ain't goin work either. No fear, bottle filled this AM and already another pair of shoes built.:D:cool:
"As I see it, winners get the money - while losers talk of "individual goals" and similar stuff." Tom Stovall
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 11 Jun 2009 21:11 #105

  • ray steele
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Gary Hill wrote:
Nope, that ain't goin work either. No fear, bottle filled this AM and already another pair of shoes built.:D:cool:

By the way,

who is this guy Phil Armitage any way?

regards

ray Steele
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