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TOPIC: Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!!

RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 09:17 #31

Phil Armitage wrote:
The problem with time started after my horse was sedated. The holder requested that the horse be sedated. Apparently the horse was nibbling on the holder too much.

Phil,

Nice Job you should be very proud of your score on the written and of the great review of your work by Rick Burten and the other very experienced farriers who observed you work.

I'd like to volunteer to hold the horse for you when you retest if you so desire.

Again good work you will get it next time.
George Spear
CNBBT, CNBF, CLS


".....and I said to the horse: Trust no man in whose eyes you do not see yourself reflected as an equal."
Don Vincenzo Giobbe
CA. 1700

"What people do not appreciate is that every time a horse submits to...
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 12:20 #32

Hey guys and gals thanks for the pointers and positive comments.

Today's horses will be trimmed and fit to AFA standards and a stop watch. :D
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 12:40 #33

Good job out of you Phil, Keep on keepin on!!!!
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 13:34 #34

  • Gary_Miller
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farriergodmother wrote:
Time management is the tough part of the practical.
This is the one part of the practical that is not practical. I feel it more important how the work looks when your complete than how long it takes to do the work.

Having a time limit is great for competition. But serves no purpose when judging practical quality of work.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 14:24 #35

  • Mike Ferrara
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Gary_Miller wrote:
This is the one part of the practical that is not practical. I feel it more important how the work looks when your complete than how long it takes to do the work.

Having a time limit is great for competition. But serves no purpose when judging practical quality of work.

I have mixed thoughts on it. The AFA uses speed as one measure of skill which Butler defines as ability combined with speed. I don't disagree but other things effect how long the job takes...like minimizing steps, stamina and so on.

Speed can effect profitability, although, I can shoe more in a day by working the proper pace (for me) rather than trying to get through an individual horse quickly. A day (or week) of shoeing is more like a marathon than a sprint for me.

Speed is also important when working on some individual horses...get in and get out.

I think time is an important measure put in the proper context.
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 15:30 #36

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Gary Millar wrote:
This is the one part of the practical that is not practical. I feel it more important how the work looks when your complete than how long it takes to do the work.

Having a time limit is great for competition. But serves no purpose when judging practical quality of work.
Couldn't agree more. Any apprentice I've had were told to never compete with me for time, just quality of work. Time comes on it's own with experience. The reference to "proper context" is valid, especially with young or nervous horses, but that is not the testing context, as I understand it. Obviously a day and a half to do the job would be stretching it. :)
John
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 15:33 #37

Congrats, Phil

after the practical is done; you can do the CJF the same day:eek:
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 15:58 #38

  • Mike Ferrara
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John Emsley wrote:
Couldn't agree more. Any apprentice I've had were told to never compete with me for time, just quality of work. Time comes on it's own with experience. The reference to "proper context" is valid, especially with young or nervous horses, but that is not the testing context, as I understand it. Obviously a day and a half to do the job would be stretching it. :)
John

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the AFA context is simply that if you're very good at it, you should be able to get it done in the allowed time. Maybe...maybe not.

It would be a stretch for me to get 4 shoes made and a horse shod in two hours. I don't have the strength or stamina that I once had and I need my breaks. At the same time, I don't make shoes every day or even every week so I have no doubt that there is still room to improve skill and shave time independant of stamina.

That would be important for the test but not so much for my business. Not surprisingly, I tend to get proficient at the things I have to do. When I am using a lot of handmades, I get pretty handy. When I'm not, I get kind of clumbsy and slow. The "use it or lose it" thing and money is a great motivator.

To each their own but if I'm going to be in the shop not making money, I'd rather make a knife than a horseshoe. I give them as gifts and wear them on my belt when I hunt and fish. I tried doing the same with horseshoes but folks didn't seem to enjoy them as much as gifts and wearing horseshoes on my belt while out hunting just didn't seem to serve any purpose. LOL
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 15:58 #39

  • smitty88
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Phil,
what stage were you at when the bell went for 30 mins left
are you loosing to much time trimming or fitting or both
Smitty88
John Mc Loughlin
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 17:29 #40

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Mike Ferrara wrote:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I think the AFA context is simply that if you're very good at it, you should be able to get it done in the allowed time. Maybe...maybe not.
If so, then their context is wrong IMO. ;) The old adage of "Do you want it fast or do you want it good?" comes to mind. Speed comes with time unless you're doing NB, then you have to take into consideration all the explanations. :rolleyes:
To each their own but if I'm going to be in the shop not making money, I'd rather make a knife than a horseshoe. I give them as gifts....
If you need my mailing address, just ask. A small knife would be nice. :D
John
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 20:49 #41

I tested for my CF in the beginning of May, and I had similar results as Phill ( although a lower score on the writen:)) As far as the time limit goes, I feel that this is a test to show proficiency not competency like a test that you would take comming out of school. I guess I can't remember but i don't think that there was any time limit on that, at least not anything to worry about. But it is amazing how fast that hour goes. I did have time to fit up two pairs of shoes, including stretching the second pair, all that and missed by putting in a heel check. The horse had really wrappy heels and I ran out of steel. Also i would have had it but my shoe was crocked just a tiny bit. Between the two I didn't cover the heel. About a thumb nail width on the inside by the comisure.

Good Luck Phill on the practicall, and congrats on writen and shoeboards

Cody
Cody Hofsommer CF
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 21:20 #42

smitty88 wrote:
Phil,
what stage were you at when the bell went for 30 mins left
are you loosing to much time trimming or fitting or both

Smitty, at 30 mins I was shaping the shoes. I spent too long trimming, but that was from not paying attention to time. I lost a lot of time fitting.

Timed myself today and trimmed two feet in 14 min. First horse it took me 1:05 mins that included stud holes and pads. The hind feet I did with steel shoes hot fitted in 45 mins. Next horse I cold shod with alum. front and steel hind. Front feet in 30 min. hind feet in 35 min.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 21:24 #43

UpNorthShoer wrote:
I tested for my CF in the beginning of May, and I had similar results as Phill ( although a lower score on the writen:)) As far as the time limit goes, I feel that this is a test to show proficiency not competency like a test that you would take comming out of school. I guess I can't remember but i don't think that there was any time limit on that, at least not anything to worry about. But it is amazing how fast that hour goes. I did have time to fit up two pairs of shoes, including stretching the second pair, all that and missed by putting in a heel check. The horse had really wrappy heels and I ran out of steel. Also i would have had it but my shoe was crocked just a tiny bit. Between the two I didn't cover the heel. About a thumb nail width on the inside by the comisure.

Good Luck Phill on the practicall, and congrats on writen and shoeboards

Cody

Thanks Cody, keep at it bud.
Phil Armitage, CF
AFA member 7480

"Anyone who proposes to do good must not expect people to roll stones out of his way, but must accept his lot calmly if they even roll a few more upon it." Albert Schweitzer
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 08 Jun 2009 22:33 #44

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John Emsley wrote:
If so, then their context is wrong IMO. The old adage of "Do you want it fast or do you want it good?" comes to mind. Speed comes with time unless you're doing NB, then you have to take into consideration all the explanations. :rolleyes:


If you need my mailing address, just ask. A small knife would be nice. :D
John

Good job on the written, Phil. Sorry I missed whether you have your shoe board done yet or not.

"Do you want it fast or do you want it good" doesn't apply here. This is an exam that tests skill and proficiency. It's a simple request done to a simple prescription. Don't make it out to be more than it is.
Remember the scoring and what carries the most weight. You don't need to spend time trying to get a 10 on every element.
Want to pass this test? Just take your every day work AND attitude with you when you go.
It should be way more than good enough.
If not...well...I don't know what to tell ya, other than you need to hit a clinic or two and spend a lot more time in the forge building shoes. No...you don't need to build shoes for this test, but building shoes helps your eys in shaping them.... *ding* ....proficiency.
That...and ya might want to think about working with/for someone who demands a higher level of acceptability.

I've seen guys all but p*ss their pants when it comes time to take these :eek: tests:eek: ... so nervous....
Look.
Every day...
EVERY day...you are willing to "drop your linen and have people check out your skid marks" - John Voight ... and they pay you.
So walk in their like you own the place...do the job...and get on with it. You know how to shoe a horse. The prescription is a flippin' color-by-number set.

And I don't want to hear any excuses about a tq'd hide, bad lighting or your feng shui bein outta kilter. It's your bread and butter. Do it man.

And as far as "Speed comes with time unless you're doing NB, then you have to take into consideration all the explanations."....
Hey...don't sell your soul for money and you don't need to spend time trying to justify puttin junk on amazing animals.....
But seriously Phil. If something's hanging you up, get a hold of me. I can help.
And hey, who tested you guys over there?
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RE:Phil Armitage scored a 95 on his CF written !!!! 09 Jun 2009 01:29 #45

  • JimBondra
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Good job Phil,
Keep after it.
The journey is worth more than the result.
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