make up natural cara make up make up tutorial make up korea make up minimalis make up artis make up mata belajar make up make up wardah alat make up makeup forever indonesia makeup artist jakarta tips make up barbie make up natural make up make up wajah make up pesta make up syahrini makeup mata makeup minimalis peralatan make up make up cantik make up mac make up kit jual make up make up sederhana perlengkapan make up gambar make up vidio make up cara makeup minimalis wardah make up make up pac make up glamour cara memakai makeup make up panggung harga make up make up modern make up alami make up dasar pixy make up make up muslimah make up oriflame make up jepang makeover cosmetic make up ultima make up sariayu grosir make up makeup fantasi makeup pesta tas makeup langkah make up make up pria make up malam alat makeup tahapan make up produk make up shading make up mak up make up kebaya make up jilbab make up inez make up simpel contoh make up cara ber makeup makeup wajah tanpa make up make up terbaru toko make up mac makeup indonesia make up soft urutan make up trik make up makeover makeup brand gusnaldi make up paket make up panduan make up jual makeup brush make up bagus alat2 make up make up gusnaldi aplikasi make up alat alat makeup dasar make up inez make up peralatan makeup make up wanita make up berjilbab make up tebal sejarah make up make up maybeline make up branded make up siang tata cara makeup reseller make up make up muslim make up maybelin warna make up tips make up artist rias make up make up mata make up artis belajar make up make up artist kursus make up kuas make up make up forever indonesia jual make up mac indonesia make up make up artist indonesia harga make up forever jual make up online make up pac make up forever jakarta make up oriflame jual make up forever make up online shop indonesia harga make up sekolah make up grosir make up harga make up maybelline jual make up murah make up terbaru mak up mac make up indonesia sofia make up make up kit murah mac makeup indonesia produk make up jual make up kit make up store indonesia make up forever academy jakarta toko make up online jual make up set jual make up mac make up beauty jual make up branded produk make up mac make up forever harga make up mac indonesia produk make up artis jual make up palette produk make up forever make up palette murah before after make up pengantin before after make up sendiri before n after hasil makeup contoh make up karakter contoh riasan pengantin before n after harga make up wisuda harga make up artist harga make up forever make up wisuda rias wisuda di jogja Daftar harga make up forever daftar harga make up mac daftar harga kosmetik make up forever makeup wisuda harga makeup wisuda kursus make up di yogyakarta kursus make up di jogja kursus make up jogja kursus make up yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di yogyakarta kursus kecantikan di jogja kursus make up artist di jogja kursus rias pengantin di jogja kursus rias di yogyakarta kursus tata rias di yogyakarta rias pengantin muslim jogja jasa kreasi jilbab wisuda yogyakarta jasa rias make up wisuda murah bagus bisa dpanggil tempat make uf di jigja yang bagus rias wisuda murah dan berkualitas yogyakarta pakar kreasi jilbab di jogja make uper natural yogya make up wisuda hijab area jogja make up dan kreasi jilbab yang bagus di jogja jasa make up natural untuk wisuda jogja makeup jogja make up jogja makeup yogyakarta make up yogyakarta makeup wisuda jogja make up wisuda jogja make up wisuda yogyakarta makeup wisuda yogyakarta
Tuesday September 27, 2022
Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: Under Cut Pricing

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 00:07 #31

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
Mike Ferrara wrote:
I'm not sure what year Il licensing ended but I don't think it was too long after it ended that I started.
Ended in '81 or '82. Your profile says you started in '80 same as me. This makes me think it was an obstacle in your life. Hmmmmm:p

Mike Ferrara wrote:
First off, enforce immigration law.
Immigration law may not have been violated. We don't know that. The country's open door policy to anybody who wants in here ensures depressed wages. And no, just because guys are cheap does not necessarily mean they s uck. Conversely being very expensive does not necessarily make a guy great either. Save that BS for the clients, most of us know better.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 01:47 #32

  • vthorseshoe
  • vthorseshoe's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2841
  • Thank you received: 55
  • Karma: 11
Set your prices and do good work.
This works in most area's. A good reputation will get you into a LOT of doors. Keeping a GOOD reputation will keep those doors OPEN.

If your in a depressed area then you follow the same advice. In your case it will keep you working with call backs when others are doing a one time stop.

I am for licensing but for a different reason.
I want to see folks shoeing who are qualified to shoe.
Prices will set themselves as they always have done.
I want to see a farrier review board who has the power to stop or suspend a farrier for less than professional work, attitude, horsehandling or other infractions that should be attended to.

I have no problem with anyone wanting to learn to shoe or wanting to have theiur own business or running their business in their own manner.

I have problems with folks who go out and buy tools and hang out a shingle.
I have problems with trimmers who are crippling horses in the name of Ala natural.
I have problems with shoers coming out of school and not having enough experience under their belts.

Times are changing though.
A number of schools are offering a cjf course that requires the student to make a commitment of actual time and hands on experience before taking on the title of Farrier.

This is a good thing and I suspect we will see other changes happen in the future.

Put professionalism back into the Honorable Trade of being a Farrier.

When this happens we will see these hacks go down the road.

My 2 cents worth ;)
Sorry Ben, I know i got off topic.
"you may not like what I say" !
-but-
"you'll never have any doubts where I stand
quote Cindy Matthews 1948-2006


I thought my life had come to a close with Cindy's passing, but there is life after death Thankyou Sharon !

Bruce Matthews
Southeast...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 02:54 #33

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
Mike Ferrara wrote:
Gary, Why are you figuring 30 miles/horse?
Due to where I live and where I have to travel the average distance is 15 miles or more one way.

While there are lots or horse close to where I live I only have a few due to my prices. The Farrier who I trained under lives in the same town but also has to travel due to the prices. Many years ago this town use to have a Farrier School so there is lots of old timers who due their own horse or who shoe part time.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 03:03 #34

  • BS-Horseshoeing
  • BS-Horseshoeing's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 1529
  • Thank you received: 4
  • Karma: 2
Bruce you may not have answered the questions I posed, but I think you spoke of the root of the problem or at least part of it. If all farriers were more educated in the business of farriery, we would not have so much of this happening. When one sets down and puts the numbers together and see's what the real cost of shoeing is for the farrier it can be a real eye opener. It's not the final number we charge the customer, but that's what so many see, just what the total price is and not what they are really making. I know some guys don't care because they don't run a business paying taxes, carrying insurance, or even caring, they just look at the total and think things are fine. Problem is, when they drop prices so low it really does effect the guys who need to or want to or who can charge more due to thier skill.

I understand it's thier choice and that they have thier place doing dinks for cheap aas people but I still don't like it. I've been in thier place at the beginning of my career and it really stunk. When I wole up and realized I was doing thing the hard way I started to seek out people and things to make myself better. Dad always said work smarter not harder and it took me a few years to get that through my thick skull as he would say. No way do I want to do 10 to 20 horses a day, I really like doing 5 to 8 and going home to see my wife and kids and having enough money to pay the bills and time to enjoy whats left over. In these times that's a little tougher than it use to be. So, when I see these people doing things the hard way, I just wonder why.

As far as the licensing, I'm not sure I'm for it, but I'm trying to put myself in a position so that if it comes to pass I will be ready and have no problems going right along with the system.
Ben Sturman
AFA CF #7558

Tough times never last, but tough people do!

Beware the lollipop of mediocrity, one lick and you will suck for ever!

Folks who think traditional farriery means perimeter fit don't know a heluva lot about shoeing. Tom Stovall,...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 03:10 #35

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
George Geist wrote:
Refer to post 17. I remember Illinois you don't.
If I recall correctly there is no longer and licensing in Illinois. If licensing would be so good that it would solve all the problems why is it no more?

George Geist wrote:
And how does this prevent other cheaper guys from knocking on the barn door. Around the Philadelphia area we got a truckload of Guatemalens going from farm to farm guaranteeing they'll shoe or trim as many as a place has at a lower price than the cheapest quote. You can certainly do things however you want in your personal business but what can be done about that? You guessed it-nothing.
While this maybe not be desireable its the cost of doing buisness, and licensing in any field of buisness has yet to prove the so called "price cutting will stop".


George Geist wrote:
And I'll see your BS and raise you a double BS. You've never been tested, licensed anywhere or worked at any track.
No argument there, your right. However, I will raise you the whole bull and call.:eek:

George Geist wrote:
Is something you know nothing about so I suggest you enjoy your blissful ignorance.
I may not know the laws in your area. However, I have been looking into the laws in my area due to a new customer I have picked up and the possable need to get on the track to shoe his horse. So I do know the laws in Idaho as I have recently looked up what I would need to do to get licensed. Here's a link for you so you can make sure I'm right http://www.isp.state.id.us/race/ :p
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 03:31 #36

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
vthorseshoe wrote:
I am for licensing but for a different reason.
vthorseshoe wrote:
I want to see folks shoeing who are qualified to shoe.
Qualified how, to who's standard and why should that be the standard?
vthorseshoe wrote:
Prices will set themselves as they always have done.
Agree.
vthorseshoe wrote:
vthorseshoe;159375 wrote:
I want to see a farrier review board who has the power to stop or suspend a farrier for less than professional work, attitude, horsehandling or other infractions that should be attended to.
In other words this board would control you and your business. Who would decide who is on the board, and how would that decision be made.
vthorseshoe wrote:
I have no problem with anyone wanting to learn to shoe or wanting to have theiur own business or running their business in their own manner.
Your above remarks show different.
vthorseshoe wrote:
I have problems with folks who go out and buy tools and hang out a shingle.
You have to start somewhere if one can afford the tools and has the knowledge why should the not be able to hang out their shingle.
vthorseshoe wrote:
I have problems with trimmers who are crippling horses in the name of Ala natural.
While trimmers sell the trim it the horse owner who buys into the BS. Its the horse owner overall responsibility for who the hire or fire to take care of their horse.
Oh and by the way lots of these so called trimmers do a pretty good job. My problem is the all the BS they sale the horse owner.
vthorseshoe wrote:
I have problems with shoers coming out of school and not having enough experience under their belts.
How much is enough experience, and who should decide what "enough" is?

vthorseshoe wrote:
A number of schools are offering a cjf course that requires the student to make a commitment of actual time and hands on experience before taking on the title of Farrier.
Good for them I all for education. Of course I'm all against teaching to the test.

vthorseshoe wrote:
Put professionalism back into the Honorable Trade of being a Farrier.
I never know it left.

vthorseshoe wrote:
When this happens we will see these hacks go down the road.
No we won't there will always be hacks.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 05:03 #37

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
Gary_Miller wrote:
If I recall correctly there is no longer and licensing in Illinois. If licensing would be so good that it would solve all the problems why is it no more?
Political issues more unbelievable than any of you guys could begin to imagine. Was enough to make Blagojevich look good. Suffice it to say it had nothing to do with the trade one way or the other.
licensing in any field of buisness has yet to prove the so called "price cutting will stop".
Have seen it work for years. It works by forcing needed organization.

I may not know the laws in your area. However, I have been looking into the laws in my area due to a new customer I have picked up and the possable need to get on the track to shoe his horse. So I do know the laws in Idaho as I have recently looked up what I would need to do to get licensed. Here's a link for you so you can make sure I'm right http://www.isp.state.id.us/race/ :p
Try it in NY, NJ, PA etc. You'll be in for a rude awakening.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 05:09 #38

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
vthorseshoe wrote:
I am for licensing but for a different reason.
I want to see folks shoeing who are qualified to shoe.
Prices will set themselves as they always have done.
I want to see a farrier review board who has the power to stop or suspend a farrier for less than professional work, attitude, horsehandling or other infractions that should be attended to.

I have no problem with anyone wanting to learn to shoe or wanting to have theiur own business or running their business in their own manner.

I have problems with folks who go out and buy tools and hang out a shingle.
I have problems with trimmers who are crippling horses in the name of Ala natural.
I have problems with shoers coming out of school and not having enough experience under their belts.

Put professionalism back into the Honorable Trade of being a Farrier.

When this happens we will see these hacks go down the road.
Certainly can't disagree with any of that. Excellent post Bruce.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 05:21 #39

  • Gary_Miller
  • Gary_Miller's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 2565
  • Thank you received: 1
  • Karma: 0
George Geist wrote:
Have seen it work for years.
Examples please.

George Geist wrote:
It works by forcing needed organization.
Force, the removal of personal Freedoms. The bases for a socialistic or communistic society.

Who gets to determine there is a need?

Wow, that's just what I want.

George Geist wrote:
Try it in NY, NJ, PA etc. You'll be in for a rude awakening.
Obvious its going to be different in each state.
Gary Miller, PF

Ride hard, shoot straight, and always speak the truth.
Gunfighter Motto

"Our level of quality is how well our eye can see it." (Eric Russell, Oct 2008, Horseshoes.com)

"Discover what it is that makes you passionate then grab a firm...
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 10:10 #40

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
George Geist wrote:
Ended in '81 or '82. Your profile says you started in '80 same as me. This makes me think it was an obstacle in your life. Hmmmmm:p

My profile? I started in the early 80's but I wasn't shoeing on my own yet in 1980.

No obstical for me other than, as I already said, there were guys out there who thought they had the right to stop you from working.

Immigration law may not have been violated. We don't know that. The country's open door policy to anybody who wants in here ensures depressed wages. And no, just because guys are cheap does not necessarily mean they s uck. Conversely being very expensive does not necessarily make a guy great either. Save that BS for the clients, most of us know better.
George

Wages are not depressed in this country.

Of course, price doesn't always indicate quality. There is also supply and demand and so on and so forth. It helps to be able to do something that not everyone else can do.

Lots of horses get by with very litte farrier care. Lots get by with no professional farrier care. Lots of folks do their own trimming/keg shoeing. Trimming and nailing keg shoes on "sound" horses isn't worth a lot of many in many areas. That doesn't make for a very high paying career and it never has.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 10:11 #41

  • Rick Burten
  • Rick Burten's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Enforcer
  • Posts: 9082
  • Thank you received: 50
  • Karma: 8
Gary_Miller wrote:
If I recall correctly there is no longer and licensing in Illinois.
That's correct.
If licensing would be so good that it would solve all the problems why is it no more?
As George noted, there were many problems, most of a political/personal nature, with/within the system. Also, because none of the surrounding states required a license, many a farrier who lived in Illinois, worked in another state.

I can only hope that if and when licensing of farriers becomes a reality, the Illinois model is not the one put in place.
Rick Burten PF

In the immortal words of Ron White: "But let me tell you something, folks: You can't fix S-tupid. There's not a pill you can take; there's not a class you can go to. S-tupid is forever."
."


Je pense donc je suis
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 10:24 #42

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
George Geist wrote:
Have seen it work for years.

Stay on the track if you like the way things are run.

It works by forcing needed organization.

It's been a busy week and my truck could stand a little organizing.



Try it in NY, NJ, PA etc. You'll be in for a rude awakening.
George

Doesn't Pat Reilly administer the testing in PA?
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 11:41 #43

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
Mike Ferrara wrote:
Doesn't Pat Reilly administer the testing in PA?
Matter of fact he does. And an excellent job he does of it too:):cool:
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 11:49 #44

  • George Geist
  • George Geist's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Master
  • Posts: 3336
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 3
Mike Ferrara wrote:

No obstical for me other than, as I already said, there were guys out there who thought they had the right to stop you from working.
Balderdash! To say that insults every Illinois licensed horseshoer. I can't imagine Rick Burten ever being that way:eek:
Wages are not depressed in this country.
Uh, ok. Whatever:rolleyes:
Of course, price doesn't always indicate quality. There is also supply and demand and so on and so forth. It helps to be able to do something that not everyone else can do.

Lots of horses get by with very litte farrier care. Lots get by with no professional farrier care. Lots of folks do their own trimming/keg shoeing. Trimming and nailing keg shoes on "sound" horses isn't worth a lot of many in many areas. That doesn't make for a very high paying career and it never has.
On this stuff we agree. And earlier on I said that you guys would come up with no solution to the problem of price cutting. Not only have you not done so but you have even said you don't see it as a problem.

With this I must agree with Bruce in that your only reason for posting is to be argumentative.
George
For another fun place to play........
www.horseshoersforum.invisionzone.com
Come over and say hello.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

RE:Under Cut Pricing 25 May 2009 12:42 #45

  • Mike Ferrara
  • Mike Ferrara's Avatar
  • OFFLINE
  • Guru
  • Posts: 5057
  • Thank you received: 3
  • Karma: 0
George Geist wrote:
Matter of fact he does. And an excellent job he does of it too:):cool:
George

Pat has told me a little about the test and, from what I remember, it doesn't sound like a test that's going to keep anybody out. I'm not sure I see how that's going to keep prices up.

From what I've been told of the old Il licensing test, it wasn't much of a test either....though they could fail you if they wanted to in order to keep you off a buddy's turf.

Maybe Rick can jump in and help here but the guy that taught me was licensed in Il. If I remember right, you had to make one shoe and shoe one foot? I think you also had to weld a calk on or something. My old teacher brought his own horse to the test. Was it a requirement to supply your own horse?

As I've been told, the way the test was often done was to pre-shoe the horse...and pull the shoe. At the test, you spent some time handling your tools while holding the foot or shoe like you were doing something and then just tack the same shoe back on.

The hand made shoe was often pre-made and burried in the coal. They heat up some steel and beat on it for a bit. If it didn't go so well or time ran short, they simply burried the junk shoe in the coal and pulled out the pre-made shoe.

It probably did limit the number of farriers because you weren't going there to be tested. You were going there to get permission from the ruling class.
The administrator has disabled public write access.

Kunena Birthday Module

  • irideazippo birthday is today
  • McCutcheon969 birthday is today
  • RidingGrace birthday is today
  • trueworthy birthday is today
  • 56power65 birthday is in 1 day
  • Brenda-MI birthday is in 1 day
  • farriergodmother birthday is in 1 day
  • Jetikarabbit birthday is in 1 day
  • Myr_4089 birthday is in 1 day
  • texfarrier birthday is in 1 day
  • lindar131 birthday is in 363 days
  • Dennis Peveto birthday is in 364 days
  • ironmanhorseshoeing birthday is in 364 days
  • Robyn Beane birthday is in 364 days
  • vanderblij birthday is in 364 days
Time to create page: 0.233 seconds

S5 Box

Register

*
*
*
*
*
*

Fields marked with an asterisk (*) are required.